Humans need to have some fucking respect.
Well, the universe doesn't have any "respect" for anything.
1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
41–50 of 77 posts
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using animals as test subjects isn't really comparable in magnitude to the damage we do on a global scale to ecosystems, which is what is actually causing extinction
That we do even worse is really no excuse.
Who said an excuse is needed? That's what nature is. Species using other species for food, for starters...
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using animals as test subjects isn't really comparable in magnitude to the damage we do on a global scale to ecosystems, which is what is actually causing extinction
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Which is a different name to "putting things in perspective", -- used to make it sound like a bad thing.
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Early this on, the process of building physically accurate "fake humans" was not really possible. Bear tests were probably more an early proof of viability than anything else. The bears survived, proving that humans wouldn't be completely annihilated. Animal testing cruelty wasn't really being thought about heavily in post WWII military aerospace development. It's unfortunate but a historical footnote reminding us of…
> Animal testing cruelty wasn't really being thought about heavily in post WWII military aerospace development Considering that the endpoint is machines killing actual people, it would be the height of hypocrisy in my books for them to care about "animal testing cruelty".
I don't (reading modern past and foreseeable future), but if you subscribe to the idea of 'just war'[0] it would make sense.
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#45They had cooler dreams about the future back then.
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#46Humans need to have some fucking respect.
It's the reality of testing. You have no idea how many animals died to produce every drug you've ever taken: http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1676-5-horrifyin...
No kidding. If it weren't for the animals it'd be us.
It's always ironic to see animal rights advocates' responses when they are asked if they'd rather volunteer to be the research subjects instead. They are surprisingly reluctant...
This tends to make them ponder a bit more:
"If we hadn't experimented on animals, you might not even be alive today."
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's the reality of testing. You have no idea how many animals died to produce every drug you've ever taken: http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1676-5-horrifyin...
No kidding. If it weren't for the animals it'd be us . It's always ironic to see animal rights advocates' responses when they are asked if they'd rather volunteer to be the research subjects instead. They are surprisingly reluctant... This tends to make them ponder a bit more: "If we hadn't experimented on animals, you might not even be alive today."
It was for us as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentatio...
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Respectfully, what's your thinking for why hundreds seems like an exaggeration and is probably dozens instead?
There were only 7 tests done using bears, and one using a chimp. It seems like it would be prohibitively difficult to source several hundred bears when you only plan on doing a few tests. You have to buy them and then you need to find somewhere to put them. Even if money wasn't an issue (and likely wouldn't be on those Cold War budgets), just the logistics of the problem would make it unlikely they'd source more bear…
Aha, yes that does make hundreds seem absurd.
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Logging the max acceleration in x,y,z would have been better than throwing a bear out of plane. Knowing a bear survives is ridiculous and they knew it. Ethics are orthogonal, cadavers would have ben a better choice.
What can you compare that acceleration data to? Put a human on a shaker table and measure his brain damage? At some point you have to damage humans or animals to find out their limits.
You would now have numerical values to compare rather the MILSPEC 'dead_bear' units. Nowhere did I make an ethical argument against animal trials or say that we should do experimentation on humans. But launching bears out of an ejection seat was even stupid then.
Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Logging what with what, in 1962?
A pencil on a spring is enough to measure maximum acceleration, I'm sure by 62 they had something at least as sophisticated.
Imagine if they have the advanced capability of moving the paper under the pencil, they might get acceleration over time.