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Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

kerbalspaceprogram.com

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Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#41

Post by [deleted] »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #25
remarkEon wrote: post #16

I’ve spent a lot of time playing KSP. This game has an incredibly steep learning curve. The best thing they could do is build a player autopilot that lets them get to orbit with basic rocket builds. There’s a ton of hardcore players (like me) who do things like write kOS scripts to run rockets to the mun and beyond. But that kind of thing is lost on the person who first downloads this game. If the devs are reading th…

I disagree. Half of the value of this game comes from the fact it forces you to learn a few things about real physics along the way. Beginnings ain't hard. You can easily get to orbit manually, and you can even eyeball your way to the Mün. That said, something like the per-stage ∆v display from KER (a mod) should IMO be stock, both during construction and in-flight - without that one piece of information, any trip pa…

[deleted]

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#42

Post by [deleted] »

tytytytytytytyt wrote: post #5
iopuy wrote: post #3

Tried out KSP and just couldn't get into it. I may be the only one but there was absolutely way too high a curve to jump right in and have some fun. I did over half their tutorials and could not improvise at all based on what I had learned. Not much fun when I have to go watch a YouTube video to figure out my next step in career mode.

It only took a few videos to figure out how to do things, for me. But I sure wouldn't recommend it without those few.

[deleted]

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#43

Post by moron4hire »

koolba wrote: post #34
anthonybsd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Core developers of the game were being paid about $200 a month. Does that sound ethical to you?

I don't see any ethics in the subject at all. If that's how much they were being paid then they're likely terrible negotiators but that doesn't make any part of the contract unethical. If they were promised equity, a bonus, or some other extra compensation that was not subsequently delivered then not paying that out would be unethical. But agreeing to a lowball amount and then complaining about it being a lowball amo…

Violence isn't the only way to coerce people into doing things against their interest. If there was an implication that bonuses would be available, or something to the effect, it's unethical to say, "haha, you didn't have an iron-clad contract". Using fine-print in contracts to get one over on people who aren't lawyers is pretty much the textbook definition of unethical.

The point people are trying to make is that the people who quit said they were treated unethically. By disputing that it was unethical behavior, you're calling those people liars. Being "more right leaning" doesn't make you an asshole, but calling people liars without evidence does.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#44

Post by bunderbunder »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #25
remarkEon wrote: post #16

I’ve spent a lot of time playing KSP. This game has an incredibly steep learning curve. The best thing they could do is build a player autopilot that lets them get to orbit with basic rocket builds. There’s a ton of hardcore players (like me) who do things like write kOS scripts to run rockets to the mun and beyond. But that kind of thing is lost on the person who first downloads this game. If the devs are reading th…

I disagree. Half of the value of this game comes from the fact it forces you to learn a few things about real physics along the way. Beginnings ain't hard. You can easily get to orbit manually, and you can even eyeball your way to the Mün. That said, something like the per-stage ∆v display from KER (a mod) should IMO be stock, both during construction and in-flight - without that one piece of information, any trip pa…

100% of the value of the game is that it's a sandbox that lets you play with a bunch of different things - rocket design, orbital mechanics, exploring a technology tree, resource management, etc. etc.

To that end, any feature that makes it easier for different players to approach the game in their own ways will make for a game that appeals to more people. Let people who want to control the rocket manually control it manually, and let those who want to just have nice, automatic, repeatable launches use the autopilot. Let people who want to fiddle with rocket designs do that, but also hand out a bunch of prefab rocket designs for when you just want to sit down and fly a rocket. Let the same people play the game in different ways in different sessions, depending on their mood.

Just don't try to tell them that there's only one proper way to have fun, because all you'll do with that is ensure that they tend to get bored more quickly.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#46

Post by koolba »

moron4hire wrote: post #43
koolba wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any ethics in the subject at all. If that's how much they were being paid then they're likely terrible negotiators but that doesn't make any part of the contract unethical. If they were promised equity, a bonus, or some other extra compensation that was not subsequently delivered then not paying that out would be unethical. But agreeing to a lowball amount and then complaining about it being a lowball amo…

Violence isn't the only way to coerce people into doing things against their interest. If there was an implication that bonuses would be available, or something to the effect, it's unethical to say, "haha, you didn't have an iron-clad contract". Using fine-print in contracts to get one over on people who aren't lawyers is pretty much the textbook definition of unethical. The point people are trying to make is that th…

> Violence isn't the only way to coerce people into doing things against their interest. If there was an implication that bonuses would be available, or something to the effect, it's unethical to say, "haha, you didn't have an iron-clad contract". Using fine-print in contracts to get one over on people who aren't lawyers is pretty much the textbook definition of unethical.

None of the comments I've replied to describe anything like that. They simply refer to the (paltry) amount. I'm not disputing there's more to the story, I was simply commenting on the bit that's actually in front of me.

> The point people are trying to make is that the people who quit said they were treated unethically. By disputing that it was unethical behavior, you're calling those people liars. Being "more right leaning" doesn't make you an asshole, but calling people liars without evidence does.

I never said they were liars. I said that the $200/month doesn't on its own make the agreement unethical.

Apparently that distinction is beyond the grasp of today's commenters.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#48

Post by factotum »

koolba wrote: post #34
anthonybsd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Core developers of the game were being paid about $200 a month. Does that sound ethical to you?

I don't see any ethics in the subject at all. If that's how much they were being paid then they're likely terrible negotiators but that doesn't make any part of the contract unethical. If they were promised equity, a bonus, or some other extra compensation that was not subsequently delivered then not paying that out would be unethical. But agreeing to a lowball amount and then complaining about it being a lowball amo…

You’re assuming the owners did everything according to contract and above-board. Maybe they didn’t. Ever considered that? Even if they did, perhaps they just got lucky and were able to convince smart developers to work against their interest. Regardless, defending them does you no favors, as evidenced by the comments on here, nor was it the best long term move for them, because I won’t be buying anything pushed out by that leadership team and will encourage others to do the same. Given the comments here, I suspect others will, too.

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#49

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

sandworm101 wrote: post #29

Been playing since first linux biulds. Love the game. Hate the developer. Too much politics. Too many mind games. Too many unaddressed bugs. Would jump at any similar game, something more based on physics, if run by anyone else.

Do you know of Orbiter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbiter_(simulator)

Orbiter vs Kerbal, etc.: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3091/1

(Via XKCD, note title text: https://xkcd.com/1244/ - nice slingshots too )

Re: Kerbal Space Program Extension Now Available

#50

Post by factotum »

TomMarius wrote: post #40
abricot wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. They just aren't assholes.

I never said that the owners aren't assholes, but still, it was the developers' free choice to sign that (asshole-ish) agreement. Being more to the right than the HN crowd doesn't mean being an asshole.

No, but throwing around political accusations as epithets in a non-political discussion might.
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