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Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

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Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#41

Post by BadCookie »

rrauenza wrote: post #28
twblalock wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that many coding interviews don't test on-the-job skills. But pressure-cooker situations do happen on the job, e.g. production outages, major customers being affected by bugs and threatening to cancel, etc. It's not unrealistic to say that people who can't deal with that are unsuitable for many engineering positions.

That kind of pressure isn't the same as interview pressure. I've been in whiteboard coding interviews and in situations where "production is down" and they are very different kinds of pressure and expectations.

I agree. I handle work pressure well enough, but social anxiety is a completely different animal.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#42

Post by noobiemcfoob »

jccalhoun wrote: post #31

I always find impostor syndrome interesting. When I was in grad school I was ignorant of a lot of things and didn't try to fool anyone. Same thing with job interviews. I figured that the profs and potential employers were the ones that knew things and there was no way I could fool them because I didn't even know what I didn't know.

Just like becoming aware that my parents weren't little gods, I had the same type of enlightenment with professors and other professionals. I'd put them up on a pedestal for a long time without taking account of my own expertise. It took a good while of them asking me questions before I realized they weren't teasing me for my education but asking because they legitimately didn't know.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#43

Post by pkaye »

taurath wrote: post #11

Maybe the coding interviews which have nothing to do with the job are the problem. I'd say if you're going to be tested on something you don't actually do, for a job you are qualified for, it is rational to have imposter syndrome. Also just to add - many REALLY good engineers have some form of anxiety disorder, and the standard practice for an interview is to put them in a pressure cooker situation.

This is why I tend to interview the candidate in things related to their past jobs. Sometimes they come from an different industry than what our company was involved in.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#44

Post by taurath »

twblalock wrote: post #20
taurath wrote: post #11

Maybe the coding interviews which have nothing to do with the job are the problem. I'd say if you're going to be tested on something you don't actually do, for a job you are qualified for, it is rational to have imposter syndrome. Also just to add - many REALLY good engineers have some form of anxiety disorder, and the standard practice for an interview is to put them in a pressure cooker situation.

I agree that many coding interviews don't test on-the-job skills. But pressure-cooker situations do happen on the job, e.g. production outages, major customers being affected by bugs and threatening to cancel, etc. It's not unrealistic to say that people who can't deal with that are unsuitable for many engineering positions.

Pressure cooker situations absolutely happen on the job, when you are on the same team and the goals are the same - completely different situation than sitting in a room, alone, across from a panel of people evaluating you personally and professionally. I thrive in the former as anyone I've ever worked with can tell you, and break down in the latter.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#45

Post by notyourloops »

sho wrote: post #37
notyourloops wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't really 'trivia'. It was several hours of difficult problem solving without reference material, given access only to a whiteboard and a judge. The studying that would have led to a success: * Memorizing a significant amount of the interview's programming language. Since there is no reference material, you really need to know it. No standard library reference to help you out. * Solving enough algorithms and d…

OK, agreed that's not the trivia I was talking about. Although honestly it sounds like you dodged a bullet, if anything your experience is even more ridiculous. Does this company make a habit of writing programs on whiteboards without any references? It, uh, probably does help to know the language you're being interviewed for, although a good programmer in any language can almost certainly start being productive in a…

There's knowing a programming language and where to look when you're unsure of the details, and there's knowing a programming language.

I could write programs in the target language on a computer, easily, but on a whiteboard I encountered a few halts where I would have used the reference docs. When I asked a doc reference question, I immediately could tell from facial expression alone that my interviewer was docking me points.

Was that experience ridiculous? I know it changed my willingness to interview more until I've mastered more material. I'm not going to burn time and money to be grilled for several hours and not be able to nail it.

I'm employed full time but it's time for advancement, so I've been studying a lot.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#46

Post by taurath »

tytytytytytytyt wrote: post #36
alacombe wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pressure cooker situations" are different than being asked to be an expert in IGBT transformer, have state of the art metallurgy knowledges, and have the flexibility of an olympic gymnast... for a welder position.

What questions are asked that are as divorced from being a software dev as olympic level flexibility is from being a welder? Or is this just a straw man argument?

Having a front end web developer/designer implement a b-tree from memory for example.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#47

Post by emodendroket »

taurath wrote: post #11

Maybe the coding interviews which have nothing to do with the job are the problem. I'd say if you're going to be tested on something you don't actually do, for a job you are qualified for, it is rational to have imposter syndrome. Also just to add - many REALLY good engineers have some form of anxiety disorder, and the standard practice for an interview is to put them in a pressure cooker situation.

What would you do instead? Everybody knows interviews don't work that well but nobody has any better ideas.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#48

Post by 0xfeba »

tdumitrescu wrote: post #40

"For me, it was seeing the back end code wizard on my team—the one that always made me feel like an impostor—spend an hour trying to center an image on a webpage." To be fair, before flexbox this was also true of front-end wizards...

Came here to say the same. Centering an image is much harder than it should be, pre-flexbox.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#49

Post by emodendroket »

djhworld wrote: post #23
afpx wrote: post #4

Why do people study for interviews? I feel like if I have to study for an interview, then I’m clearly not good enough for the position. Is this common in other fields of study?

Software engineering isn't a profession, there's no standardised way of demonstrating to an employer that you have the requisite skills they want. A CompSci degree/MSc/PhD is just a piece of paper that a lot of other people have. Employment history is just a paragraph on your resume, that you could have embellished to make yourself look better. This is why companies do these "Dr. House" style 4-6 hour, multi stage in…

I don't think the question of whether it is a profession really ties that well into the rest of what you have said.

Re: Fixing impostor syndrome in coding interviews

#50

Post by emodendroket »

curmudgeon9 wrote: post #30
trhway wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have to study for an interview, then I’m clearly not good enough for the position. that is true only to the extent that the interview is related to the position... Whereis most interviews in our industry are akin to a hazing ritual, and it stands for a reason that "Google interview" got it name from that and is also religiously practiced in the other frat-companies like for example FB or stereotypical startups wi…

The way Google does project assignment after a lengthy interview process strikes me as a bait-and-switch. Feels like they're hoping you've invested so much time in the process that you won't turn down a role you would have never applied to in the first place.

Would you care to elaborate? I'm not familiar with the process.
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