Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML • Hacker News Board

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#41

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

MrBra wrote: post #19

For a moment I forgot this is homeland of JS-at-any-cost :) so to let this go through a bit more I'll just post excerpts from the linked website: --- Introduction Simplifying web-development with Ferro - An example Imagine a webpage that displays a form with a checkbox and an input field. The input should only be enabled when the checkbox is checked. This kind of logic is best handled by the webbrowser, not the webse…

[deleted]

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#42

Post by Pxtl » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

phaed wrote: post #39

ASP.NET Webforms all over again.

Webforms was crap because it was all server-side and the component design API was nightmarish, as was the client-side API.

The idea of a truly-component-oriented system for the web that abstracts away the endless pain of modern html/css/js isn't a bad one.

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#43

Post by vertex-four » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #40

vim_wannabe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day we stray further from hyperlinked documents.

Good. An application platform shouldn't pretend to be a hyperlinked document platform. Embrace the reality of the modern web instead of torturing us with the backwards perverted abstraction.

Or perhaps you can build a decent application platform instead of torturing a very useful hyperlinked document platform into doing something it wasn’t built for.

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#44

Post by jokoon » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

Well time should better be spent working on another document language.

I'm curious what the alternative to HTML/CSS would be. If such a new language could be made more readable for humans, just like json and yaml are more readable than XML. Maybe even some stylized markdown or textile might offer a partial solution.

I guess this would not incur such a big cost, since HTTP is still fine. I mean the elephant in the room is that HTML was never designed for web applications in mind, yet you cannot deny that smartphone browsers have a hard time dealing with html web apps, for the simple reason that it's a nightmare to build and run, which is why android apps have to be made.

I guess what I'm saying makes sense, I'm not sure if I'm throwing a pave in the pond... But those things are the reasons I prefer working with languages like C++ instead of HTML.

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#45

Post by fuzzy2 » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

Viewing this on an iPad, I can see it doesn't have native scrolling. That's not exactly good for UX. One should leverage native functionality instead of working around it to achieve a controlled environment or whatever.

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#46

Post by teleclimber » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:46 PM UTC

roryisok wrote: post #16

Looks pretty simple alright https://i.imgur.com/sn69Wv0.png

Edge 15 is an "old" browser??

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#47

Post by teleclimber » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #32

Retroity wrote: post #15

But why? Why should web pages that don't require javascript require it?

Why would you have JS disabled anyway?

I disable JS more and more often because of all the crap popups and email signup forms etc... I use this extension which makes it easy to toggle on a per-site basis:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/quick-javascript-s...

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#48

Post by Pxtl » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

vertex-four wrote: post #43

Pxtl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. An application platform shouldn't pretend to be a hyperlinked document platform. Embrace the reality of the modern web instead of torturing us with the backwards perverted abstraction.

Or perhaps you can build a decent application platform instead of torturing a very useful hyperlinked document platform into doing something it wasn’t built for.

It's about 20 years too late for that conversation.

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#49

Post by vertex-four » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #48

vertex-four wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps you can build a decent application platform instead of torturing a very useful hyperlinked document platform into doing something it wasn’t built for.

It's about 20 years too late for that conversation.

It’s really not. The only thing going for the web as an application platform is decent sandboxing and the fact that web browsers are installed on most computers by default - it’s not actually good, hence the proliferation of native apps on mobile. So perhaps it’s worth thinking about how to put a better system for distributing applications into people’s hands, rather than continuing as a society to waste effort on torturing web technologies into doing it.

Re: Ferro – Simplifying web development, no more HTML

#50

Post by ricardobeat » Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

Hard to get past the wall of misinformation:

> What we don't need when using Ferro

> HTML > Javascript DOM finders (like jQuery, Zepto, ...) > Javascript libraries/frameworks that extend html (like Ember, Angular, JSX, Vue, Stimulus) > Shadow DOM Javascript frameworks (like React)

jQuery and Zepto are not “DOM finders”, they are cross-browser compatibility layers (that include querySelector).

“Frameworks that extend HTML” definitely encompasses Ferro itself.

React uses a virtual DOM. “Shadow DOM” is unrelated and part of the web components proposal.