Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also think it makes no sense. It was full of fake constructed emotion moments. Manual override? You cant program your own ship? Okay. What about not putting your most experienced war general but one of the zilion androids? Or the sick guy with cancer who will volunteer because he has 2 months to live. I mean star wars arent so much scifi but fantasy in scifi setting. Battles would surely not be fought like this. Bu…
I suppose it’s the romantic notion of “captain goes down with the ship”. Plus it’s probably not a common situation that you would have an empty capital ship with a kamikaze pilot — let alone pursuers that can chase it across hyperspace.
We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
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Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#42Lando was not going to rescue Han. He was there just in case they needed backup.
Leia was going in to unfreeze Han. When they needed to get away quickly, they couldn’t carry him frozen, and he needed time to come to after being unfrozen. My guess is that they planned to hide out until Luke came in, or Leia planned to go “well I don’t know who unfroze him. Probably Chewy, but definitely not me, I am just a bounty hunter.” Getting caught was not a part of the plan.
The droids came in to sneak in the lightsaber. Luke knew they weren’t enough to pay for Han. Jabba would have never accepted that.
The plan for Luke was to mind trick Jabba. If that didn’t work, it was to grab his lightsaber and fuck shit up. He got caught because Leia got caught. If Leia was still set up as an undercover bounty hunter, and R2D2 was close by, he could have just started slicing and dicing. Instead he had to fight the Rancor.
In the end, it was sheer luck that Jabba was doing the typical villain thing instead of just shooting them on the spot. To be fair, he clearly had a weakness for being theatrical. That’s why he kept Han frozen.
But. Star Wars is full of ret conning by fans and by Lucas. None of this crap was thought through before filming. Well not a lot at least. I believe the basic plot was, but details were not. Like I don’t think that Lando’s character existed before ANH was filmed. Which does drive me kinda nuts because people hail SW as such a complete universe. In reality, Lucas did a lot of just random stuff in the first three movies and then it had to become canon, sometimes through really crazy explanations. See the gaffe with parsecs being a unit of distance and how what makes the Falcon so fast is it’s navigational computer (a detail that was never mentioned in any movies for any ship, including the Falcon), and not because they screwed up how measurements of space and time work to sound cool.
Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Star Wars was just meant to be a kids’ movie and not a sacred document I saw The Last Jedi, had a great time, and came home to find Star Wars fans apoplectic about it, picking apart all kinds of things ("how does rey know how to swim?", "how does leia survive space?", etc). The original trilogy would never survive similar scrutiny. I went to see a kids movie about space wizards, and that's what I got. It was fun.
Obviously, everyone is entitled to enjoy what they want, but this movie was difficult for me, even by Star Wars standards. If we can just destroy entire enemy fleets by jumping to lightspeed with one ship, why are not all battles fought that way. Also, why couldn't the captain leave and have the computer pilot the ship? Maybe it's just that the original trilogy slipped in to me before I got old enough to where I thin…
For the same reason naval battles in the real world weren't always fought by ramming ships into other ships. Ships are expensive, hyperdrives are expensive, and more valuable as ships than as ballistic mass. It would be a waste of resources for it to become a common tactic.
It was a lucky gamble that paid off.
>Maybe it's just that the original trilogy slipped in to me before I got old enough to where I think about such things
The OT is just as ridiculous. The trench run on the Death Star makes no sense outside of the context of the World War 2 film it was lifted from, no one in their right mind would design AT-ATs with such a high and vulnerable center of gravity, stormtrooper armor clearly does nothing against teddy bears and small rocks, spaceships bank and make noises in space, etc. Even lightsabers are just "cool laser swords" and metaphors for "space samurai" but don't make a lot of sense as weapons in a universe with telekinesis and blasters. Actual samurai weren't stupid enough to use their katanas if they had spears, bows and eventually guns available, yet I don't recall ever seeing a Jedi sniper, or the lightsaber version of a naginata.
Sound military tactics and plausible design were never really a thing in Star Wars.
Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
With the ships jumping into lightspeed, it is easy economical calculation. How long it takes to build a ship? They also aimed at one big commander ship not wiping entire fleet. I think it is reasonable for ship systems to be programmed to avoid collisions when jumping to lightspeed. Manual override would be reasonable measure to pull that move.
I also think it makes no sense. It was full of fake constructed emotion moments. Manual override? You cant program your own ship? Okay. What about not putting your most experienced war general but one of the zilion androids? Or the sick guy with cancer who will volunteer because he has 2 months to live. I mean star wars arent so much scifi but fantasy in scifi setting. Battles would surely not be fought like this. Bu…
Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#45They did coordinate. It does not make any sense that they wouldn’t after the ending of Empire. Lando was not going to rescue Han. He was there just in case they needed backup. Leia was going in to unfreeze Han. When they needed to get away quickly, they couldn’t carry him frozen, and he needed time to come to after being unfrozen. My guess is that they planned to hide out until Luke came in, or Leia planned to go “we…
Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Obviously, everyone is entitled to enjoy what they want, but this movie was difficult for me, even by Star Wars standards. If we can just destroy entire enemy fleets by jumping to lightspeed with one ship, why are not all battles fought that way. Also, why couldn't the captain leave and have the computer pilot the ship? Maybe it's just that the original trilogy slipped in to me before I got old enough to where I thin…
> If we can just destroy entire enemy fleets by jumping to lightspeed with one ship, why are not all battles fought that way. For the same reason naval battles in the real world weren't always fought by ramming ships into other ships. Ships are expensive, hyperdrives are expensive, and more valuable as ships than as ballistic mass. It would be a waste of resources for it to become a common tactic. It was a lucky gamb…
If a single ship could wipe out a whole enemy fleet via ramming in terrestrial naval battles, every real-world naval battle would be fought by ramming. Also we wouldn't have naval fleets, nor probably naval battles at all. The real reason we don't fight by ramming is that, at best, you get a 1:1 trade, and normally not even that much.
So, this explanation doesn't hold water for me.
All the inconsistencies you mentioned earlier are for sure cases where you have to suspend disbelief, but (most of them) at least seem internally consistent. That is, they don't reconcile well against reality, but they don't contradict other things we see in the story. I don't feel the same way about the end of the battle in TLJ.
Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#47I have a similar question about a different movie: in Die Hard , Bruce sure whines a lot about how the police are following the Plan . But...what were they supposed to do, if not follow their best available Plan? What did Bruce want them to do, if he had his druthers? Should they...NOT follow The Plan? Follow the second -best available Plan? Going forward, how ought The Plan be modified? Should they add a "now we rol…
Pre-9/11, if a plane was hijacked, it was flown somewhere and there was some sort of ransom; no one thought a plane would be hijacked and flown into a building, so no one resisted.
Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#48It's simple. Luke had no clue what to do. He just trusted The Force, like he was trained. It worked out fine.
Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Obviously, everyone is entitled to enjoy what they want, but this movie was difficult for me, even by Star Wars standards. If we can just destroy entire enemy fleets by jumping to lightspeed with one ship, why are not all battles fought that way. Also, why couldn't the captain leave and have the computer pilot the ship? Maybe it's just that the original trilogy slipped in to me before I got old enough to where I thin…
> If we can just destroy entire enemy fleets by jumping to lightspeed with one ship, why are not all battles fought that way. For the same reason naval battles in the real world weren't always fought by ramming ships into other ships. Ships are expensive, hyperdrives are expensive, and more valuable as ships than as ballistic mass. It would be a waste of resources for it to become a common tactic. It was a lucky gamb…
Re: We Dare You to Explain Luke’s Plan to Rescue Han in ‘Return of the Jedi’
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If we can just destroy entire enemy fleets by jumping to lightspeed with one ship, why are not all battles fought that way. For the same reason naval battles in the real world weren't always fought by ramming ships into other ships. Ships are expensive, hyperdrives are expensive, and more valuable as ships than as ballistic mass. It would be a waste of resources for it to become a common tactic. It was a lucky gamb…
Ramming (or the threat thereof) is very much a real-world tactic: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_ship * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellburners
The premise that because hyperspace ramming works, it should render all other forms of warfare in the Star Wars universe obsolete seems like nitpicking to me. Of course it works. It seems to be consistent with physics in the Star Wars universe - ships do travel through and interact with physical space while entering and exiting hyperspace, and collisions with realspace objects do occur (see Han Solo mentioning the dangers of flying "right through a star" in ANH.)
So if the tactic works in universe, but why isn't it used all the time? Because throwing starships at each other and risking the loss of your own personnel and equipment is a desperate and potentially suicidal tactic and not doing that is almost always a better idea. Far more things can possibly go wrong than can go right.
Plus, once it becomes a regular tactic, countermeasures will get developed to take it into account - the enemy will disperse their command and control capabilities into multiple smaller ships or attempt to engage from a greater distance or whatever. So despite being wasteful, it's also short-sighted.
Notwithstanding the real answer being that it wouldn't be as interesting to watch ships just kamikaze one another at lightspeed.