Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#41

Post by toomanybeersies » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:52 AM UTC

fpvracing wrote: post #18

I designed a hardware product but haven't brought it to market because even if it is successful, Chinese manufacturers will reverse engineer it and then have a cheaper clone on the market within weeks, long before I can recoup even the cost of manufacturing, let alone make a profit. And since I can't afford to pursue legal action, it seems pointless to manufacture the product, and everybody loses. I wonder how much i…

I remember a while back there was a kickstarter for a phone case that folds out into a selfie stick, it got successfully funded.

Within weeks of the kickstarter finishing, before the kickstarter had even delivered or even started manufacturing the cases, they were for sale on Aliexpress.

It seems so easy for someone in China to do this. Look for successful product kickstarters and you already have market validation. Something like a selfie stick case would be so easy to set up a production run for.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#42

Post by ciscoriordan » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:52 AM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #24

Full disclosure I work for Amazon (on the web services side). The author of this article clearly doesn't know much about selling on Amazon, because what he is asking for is possible. It's called the Amazon Brand Registry. You can contact the infringment team using the details here and initiate the process of getting your brand / ASIN locked so that other people can't sell it without your permission: https://www.amazo…

It’s not a simple as you make it out to be. Amazon launched a new Brand Registry last year and all the companies in the previous version were dumped and told to re-apply.

Source: I’m a seller on Amazon and I actually bought one of these counterfeit headphone holders.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#43

Post by Scaevolus » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

lostapathy wrote: post #39

NathanKP wrote: post #24

Full disclosure I work for Amazon (on the web services side). The author of this article clearly doesn't know much about selling on Amazon, because what he is asking for is possible. It's called the Amazon Brand Registry. You can contact the infringment team using the details here and initiate the process of getting your brand / ASIN locked so that other people can't sell it without your permission: https://www.amazo…

I have actually worked with people to pursue this and we got nowhere. The counterfeits just came online under a fake upc and amazon wouldn’t take any more action. We gave up and just tell customers anything with our brand on amazon is a fake.

All you have to do is make another listing under a similar name, buy some fake reviews to pump it up, and sell it for cheaper than the real one.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#44

Post by prepend » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #38

fpvracing wrote: post #18

I designed a hardware product but haven't brought it to market because even if it is successful, Chinese manufacturers will reverse engineer it and then have a cheaper clone on the market within weeks, long before I can recoup even the cost of manufacturing, let alone make a profit. And since I can't afford to pursue legal action, it seems pointless to manufacture the product, and everybody loses. I wonder how much i…

So hire a Chinese company to manufacture it on the cheap to begin with. Isn't that what everyone does anyway? The market doesn't care about who has the best idea, or who had it first, it only cares about who comes to market with the best deal for the consumer.

A friend of mine tried this. Chinese company delayed shipment to US and flooded amazon with counterfeits made on the same line.

By the time the product made it through customs his “partner” had sold thousands.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#45

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

thro1237 wrote: post #32

Isn't it possible to bring a class action lawsuit? This is precisely the kind of things that a class action suit is a good remedy for.

It is. But read before you click!

“Any dispute or claim relating in any way to your use of any Amazon Service, or to any products or services sold or distributed by Amazon or through Amazon.com will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except that you may assert claims in small claims court if your claims qualify. The Federal Arbitration Act and federal arbitration law apply to this agreement.

There is no judge or jury in arbitration, and court review of an arbitration award is limited. However, an arbitrator can award on an individual basis the same damages and relief as a court (including injunctive and declaratory relief or statutory damages), and must follow the terms of these Conditions of Use as a court would.”

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId...

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#46

Post by elefanten » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:55 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #36

NathanKP wrote: post #24

Full disclosure I work for Amazon (on the web services side). The author of this article clearly doesn't know much about selling on Amazon, because what he is asking for is possible. It's called the Amazon Brand Registry. You can contact the infringment team using the details here and initiate the process of getting your brand / ASIN locked so that other people can't sell it without your permission: https://www.amazo…

Why is Amazon not actively seeking out patterns of counterfeiters and suggesting this to sellers. Just doing simple image machine learning should get 90% of scammers. He AWS team is great about this. Looking for abnormalities. Looking for posted AWS keys. Proactively. The retail guys need to get some of the cloud guy smarts. Or ethics. Either/or will help stop this. I don’t sell, but I can barely buy from amazon beca…

I second this strongly. Have basically stopped shopping from Amazon entirely.

Haven't ever read a single word from Amazon to reassure me (as a buyer) about counterfeits. At least nothing beyond completely cookie cutter PR stuff that my brain just dismisses.

Let's see some stats. Let's see some action plans. Let's get all these sellers' horror stories out of my various feeds. Where's all that?

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#47

Post by sabalaba » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:56 AM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #24

Full disclosure I work for Amazon (on the web services side). The author of this article clearly doesn't know much about selling on Amazon, because what he is asking for is possible. It's called the Amazon Brand Registry. You can contact the infringment team using the details here and initiate the process of getting your brand / ASIN locked so that other people can't sell it without your permission: https://www.amazo…

Since you work on the web services side it's forgivable that you would think that link to reporting infringement is an effective solution / something that Amazon pays close attention to. We've sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product on Amazon, found a company selling a counterfeit version of our product, and submitted a complaint to that URL. That was on 4/5/2016. We have yet to receive a response. The only solution we had was to call up the infringer and tell them to stop, which they luckily did.

But, as I said, from the outside, that report link does seem like a viable "option to fight back"; in reality, it's a customer support black hole.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#48

Post by jnbiche » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:56 AM UTC

I've become quite disenchanted with Amazon because of this counterfeit issue along with the fake review problem. In addition, Amazon customer service -- traditionally excellent -- has only been good to acceptable recently (they've started using Chinese agents who don't really seem to understand American customer service and also sometimes struggle with English).

I really wanted to drop Prime this year, but the wife uses it for some books and movies she likes and begged me not to. However, I've started ordering my stuff directly from sellers whenever possible. Occasionally, I order from Amazon if I need something quickly, but prefer to order directly even then if the seller has a rush delivery option (attention sellers! always offer an expedited delivery option, even if you think no one will use it!)

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#49

Post by glup » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:57 AM UTC

wybiral wrote: post #35

Amazon should do what they can to weed out this kind of thing. But consumers can also be more aware of the sellers on Amazon.

Awareness isn't enough: even if consumers know that there are counterfeiters and other bad actors, they doesn't mean that they know who they are. This is in part because the review system is compromised.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#50

Post by hhw » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:57 AM UTC

hemoglob2 wrote: post #11

while i agree with your post, "The current counterfeit seller, suiningdonghanjiaju Co Ltd (yeah they sound legit), " could be construed as a racist comment

Anything can be construed as a racist comment by an unreasonable person. I don't see any legitimate cause for a reasonable person to construe it as such however.

And although it shouldn't really matter, I say the above as a person of Chinese heritage, who does not speak for others of Chinese heritage. But if you aren't even of Chinese heritage, and are attempting to be outraged on our behalf, I would take a long, hard look at what misguided ideology brought you to post that comment.