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How poverty changes your mindset

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Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#41

Post by bojackstorkman »

bojackstorkman wrote: post #30

I love how when this comes up, it's people either saying "Here was my experience when I was poor in the past." or "Here is what I think about economics or the wording of this article." Don't get me wrong, I know what website I'm on. But in all seriousness, is there room for currently poor people in this discussion?

As a followup, I am a Real Poor! I am self taught, underemployed (I make less than $200 per month in the USA), and have pretty much been the poorest person in the room for my whole life.

I eat exclusively off of foodstamps. I am uninsured and partially disabled. I have been able to pay rent for the past few months by working off the books for a couple places, and cashing in on a very limited amount of goodwill that I accumulated in my youth. I have no reason to believe that this will last into the future, or even rent for March.

Anyway, if you have any questions, ask away!

As an aside, I am not great at Angry Birds.

Edited for clarity and typos.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#42

Post by bojackstorkman »

louprado wrote: post #35
bojackstorkman wrote: post #30

I love how when this comes up, it's people either saying "Here was my experience when I was poor in the past." or "Here is what I think about economics or the wording of this article." Don't get me wrong, I know what website I'm on. But in all seriousness, is there room for currently poor people in this discussion?

While there may be HN readers who have little income and possessions and are therefore living in "poverty", true poverty is a lack of those things and a lack of hope that your situation will improve. If you are really feeling hopeless you don't turn to HN for news on the latest programming frameworks.

I can't represent everybody, but I personally read HN so that I can eventually, one day, learn some stuff that leads to gainful employment.

Like I said, I know what website I am on.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#43

Post by bojackstorkman »

haberman wrote: post #34
bojackstorkman wrote: post #30

I love how when this comes up, it's people either saying "Here was my experience when I was poor in the past." or "Here is what I think about economics or the wording of this article." Don't get me wrong, I know what website I'm on. But in all seriousness, is there room for currently poor people in this discussion?

How does non-poor people commenting prevent poor people from commenting? The author of the original article is probably not currently poor, and yet she is writing about it. Do you see this as a problem too?

Sorry if I gave that impression. I have no problem with lots of perspectives. I specifically asked if anybody had made room for, uh, the poor people.

Considering my response has already gotten one "Well you're obviously not poor if you read this", and another asking for clarification of my opinions on non-poor people, I guess this wasn't the place to make that point. Sorry.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#44

Post by rdiddly »

tylerhou wrote: post #29
rdiddly wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but there's a subtlety: The dollars saved in those minutes are worth a different amount to a rich person depending on their relative impact on the sale. $50 off of $300 is a 1/6 discount, so a "good deal" that they will (somewhat recreationally) decide to go and get. But they still don't inherently care that much about $50. You could say if they make lets say ten times what I do, they probably care 1/10th as m…

The rational answer is that if you would drive 30 minutes to save $50 off a $300 tablet, then you should also drive 30 minutes to save $50 off a $1000 tablet. You've described the psychology of why a wealthy person might not drive the 30 minutes for the $1000 tablet well (but still will spend the time to save money on the $300 tablet), but that choice is still irrational.

Well yes, it's completely arbitrary! Those with the luxury to act irrationally will sometimes do so, I guess. And economics doesn't do a good job of explaining it, so the root of this branch of the comment tree was kinda right when they said traditional economic theory is a ass.[0]

Adversity and scarcity breeds a precision and a ruthless attention to detail that prevents that $50 from escaping. Meanwhile abundance leads to a relaxing of all such, and maybe even a dulling of that skill. Being born into wealth I imagine would put you at an even bigger disadvantage in that regard... though I might be okay with having such problems...

[0] I'm paraphrasing of course and I changed Law to Economics. http://www.bartleby.com/73/1002.html

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#45

Post by DoreenMichele »

bojackstorkman wrote: post #30

I love how when this comes up, it's people either saying "Here was my experience when I was poor in the past." or "Here is what I think about economics or the wording of this article." Don't get me wrong, I know what website I'm on. But in all seriousness, is there room for currently poor people in this discussion?

I was homeless for nearly 6 years. I got off the street last September. I am still quite poor. In fact, my bank account currently has zero in it and I don't get paid again until the 1st.

I fairly frequently give my opinions on HN about poverty, homelessness, housing, women's issues and the negative impact being female has on my earned income.

I try to be judicious and not do it too often. Testifying from firsthand experience often turns into a pile on of people pretending to care and pretending to want to help while mostly virtue signaling, doing nothing for me and dragging my name through the mud by insinuating that I somehow must have made poor choices and it must be all my fault, never mind the larger societal forces under discussion.

I often worry that if I speak up too much, I will eventually be banned for disruptive behavior, never mind that I feel that a lot of the problem behaviors are due to how other people choose to react to me. When enough people pile on with problematic replies I can eventually get frustrated and lose my cool and then I feel like that will all be blamed on me and an excuse to say I am just badly behaved. I get a lot of downvotes and flags when I finally lose my cool. This tends to not happen to people talking at me like I am not really a victim of circumstances, I just am stupid, incompetent and not trying hard enough.

I try to then give it a rest for a while and avoid such topics because I would prefer to not wind up rate limited, banned or otherwise penalized for daring to be the token poor person giving my two cents. Privileged people tend to have no idea how to help me. They tend to say really shitty things to me. They often want me to shut up because I make them uncomfortable.

I am pretty thick skinned, well educated and come from a much more privileged background than I realized for most of my life. Most poor people are not going to stick their neck out like that. They are too vulnerable and can't afford more trouble and are very well aware that expecting rich people to be genuinely respectful and caring towards them is simply a bridge too far.

It generally works better overall for the formerly poor to try to cast a little light on such subjects. It is much less of a shitshow.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#46

Post by PhasmaFelis »

louprado wrote: post #35
bojackstorkman wrote: post #30

I love how when this comes up, it's people either saying "Here was my experience when I was poor in the past." or "Here is what I think about economics or the wording of this article." Don't get me wrong, I know what website I'm on. But in all seriousness, is there room for currently poor people in this discussion?

While there may be HN readers who have little income and possessions and are therefore living in "poverty", true poverty is a lack of those things and a lack of hope that your situation will improve. If you are really feeling hopeless you don't turn to HN for news on the latest programming frameworks.

> true poverty is a lack of those things and a lack of hope that your situation will improve.

I'm not sure where your second criterion comes from. I don't think "poverty" excludes anyone who aspires to someday leave poverty.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#47

Post by mirimir »

RSZC wrote: post #9
scandox wrote: post #2

> That’s the correct financial decision, according to traditional economics—to drive the extra distance no matter the original cost. Saving $50 is the same regardless of the amount of the item in question. But wealthier participants saw the savings in relative terms, noticing the percentage savings. By contrast, poorer participants thought in absolute terms. To them, $50 saved was $50 to spend on groceries or the ele…

You're misunderstanding the question they've posed people. In either situation, the question is "is half an hour of transit worth $50 to you." Whether it's $50 saved on a $300 item or a $1000 item has no impact on the $ saved per minute.

I freelance, so I consider 30 min travel vs $50 saving differently, depending on how much work I have, when it ought to be done by, and what I'm billing at. If I were billing at less than $100/hr, and had enough slack, I'd of course make the trip. But if I were behind schedule on a $75/hr job, I'd probably pay the extra $50.

But damn, people working 15 hours per day at minimum wage might also pay the $50, if they can't readily get time off work.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#48

Post by autokad »

redm wrote: post #15

I'm sure how people deal with stress and difficult situations varies from person to person. My personal story and 2-cents: When I was 17 I went through a period of near destitute. I was living on my own, my father had passed away, and I had dropped out of school. Yet, I found myself with some very good jobs, such as GE Capital, a big Oil and Gas companies IT department, etc. Regardless of the opportunity, my arroganc…

i grew up poor, and it was frustrating to see the stupid mistakes my family and people around me would make over, and over, and over. then people like the researchers in this article say infuriating things like 'their bad decisions are just because they are cognitively tired, and actually many of them could be even considered shrewd!"

being cognitively tired does play a role, but more so because they are cognitively lazy. their bad / lazy decisions are confounded by the fact they are trying to solve problems caused by making bad decisions in the first place. on top of that, most dont value education.

i typed a long story but deleted it. in short, 4/6 of us siblings dropped out of school, those same 4 had a large life insurance policy from the airforce which they blew almost immediately.

we have so many opportunities in this country, but it still does require that we go to school, work, and use our head. i am aghast on how so many people simply refuse to THINK. so many people with money problems have no idea how much money annually they spend on ANYTHING. how can you even begin to talk to someone about getting out of poverty, if they wont even calculate how much they are spending on that 5$ starbucks and 600$ phone.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#49

Post by tamrix »

redm wrote: post #15

I'm sure how people deal with stress and difficult situations varies from person to person. My personal story and 2-cents: When I was 17 I went through a period of near destitute. I was living on my own, my father had passed away, and I had dropped out of school. Yet, I found myself with some very good jobs, such as GE Capital, a big Oil and Gas companies IT department, etc. Regardless of the opportunity, my arroganc…

I think comments like these are more likely propaganda than real experiences.

They keep feeding you the lie that you're going to be successful if you keep believing in the system.

When we all know statistically America is worse than ever before.

You read the parent comment and think the poor and just lazy and all your have to do is work yourself a slave and suck corporate dick.

But it's never a top comment adding that helping the poor could reduce the problem. Nope, it's always the corporate stooge.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#50

Post by zouhair »

redm wrote: post #15

I'm sure how people deal with stress and difficult situations varies from person to person. My personal story and 2-cents: When I was 17 I went through a period of near destitute. I was living on my own, my father had passed away, and I had dropped out of school. Yet, I found myself with some very good jobs, such as GE Capital, a big Oil and Gas companies IT department, etc. Regardless of the opportunity, my arroganc…

You being 17 when that happened helped a lot too. If the same happens when you are 40 or 45 getting out of the gutter would be nigh on impossible.
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