Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter • Hacker News Board

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#41

Post by tinco » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:01 PM UTC

brentm wrote: post #34

briga wrote: post #4

Using events like this to illustrate that global warming is happening is about as scientifically significant as when Trump used the recent US cold snap to imply that global warming isn't happening. I'm not saying climate change doesn't exist--it certainly does--but outlying events like this aren't by themselves particularly unusual. "Normal", after all, is at the top of a bell curve, and deviations from normal should…

At this point believing or not believing in climate change is analogous to religion. I have trouble believing any facts or data would swing a significant portion of either side of the debate. Denying climate change is easy. We're not going to see places like New York City move swiftly underwater and the problem is so abstract it's easy to call BS. Short of Trump changing his mind and using his super power of convinci…

As someone who is convinced of climate change, I like to think my mind would be changed rather easily with some comforting graphs and believable theories on how those graphs show the earth is in fact not warming ever more rapidly since the industrial revolution.

I mean, that would be really really nice.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#42

Post by poster123 » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:02 PM UTC

Doesn't warming of the coldest parts of the world mean there will be more usable land? I have read that global warming could have benefits for countries such as Russia.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#43

Post by loverofthings » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:05 PM UTC

brentm wrote: post #34

briga wrote: post #4

Using events like this to illustrate that global warming is happening is about as scientifically significant as when Trump used the recent US cold snap to imply that global warming isn't happening. I'm not saying climate change doesn't exist--it certainly does--but outlying events like this aren't by themselves particularly unusual. "Normal", after all, is at the top of a bell curve, and deviations from normal should…

At this point believing or not believing in climate change is analogous to religion. I have trouble believing any facts or data would swing a significant portion of either side of the debate. Denying climate change is easy. We're not going to see places like New York City move swiftly underwater and the problem is so abstract it's easy to call BS. Short of Trump changing his mind and using his super power of convinci…

In similar ways, majority of people that believe in climate change do nothing (or barely anything) to fight it. No one is reducing their heating/cooling, no one is changing their diet, no one is measuring their heating patterns and trying to optimize it (by no one I mean barely anyone).

People still want their 24/7 AC, their steaks, their huge cars, their big heat inefficient houses, their plane flights etc.

No one does a thing.

Believing in climate change, or not believing, when reflected in the actions of people, is in my eyes completely equivalent.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#44

Post by pedalpete » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:06 PM UTC

meri_dian wrote: post #30

Warmer temperatures will mean we may need to change where we farm our food and move some cities but it's much better than things getting colder. It may even be better than the current climate, given it may actually increase the amount of land where food is arable.

Though I don't "welcome global warming", I think this is a good point of debate.

The comparison to "getting colder" isn't really valid, as it is not the only option.

Most people would like things to stay the same. Perhaps we should be looking at what temperature would be the most beneficial to the planet as a whole.

If we were to create a new earth, what would be the ideal temperature, how would we manage it, where is that in comparison to where we are now, how can we get there.

Is it a dangerous question? probably.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#45

Post by pharrington » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #29

darrenf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops oops yes, mea culpa. Note to self: avoid (posting to) HN after a few drinks. Thanks to all those who corrected me.

REDACTED: No.. not oops. He's wrong, you're right. Ah why did you reply to your own comment instead of pressing edit. I thought you were the grandparent poster replying to the correction. God damnit.

The "+32" in the conversion from Celsius measures to Fahrenheit measures is to account for the base offset differences in the absolute measures.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#46

Post by manmal » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:09 PM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #2

Anecdotal: Here in Toronto, it's been 16˚C this past week. In February. We've had about 2 or 3 real snowfalls that stuck around for a few days before melting. As somebody who loves ice skating outside, it's really frustrating. And I love the snow. Every year it seems like the winter gets a little milder...

It seems the cold moved to central Europe, giving us -15 degrees celsius at night in the upcoming week.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#47

Post by zipwitch » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:10 PM UTC

meri_dian wrote: post #30

Warmer temperatures will mean we may need to change where we farm our food and move some cities but it's much better than things getting colder. It may even be better than the current climate, given it may actually increase the amount of land where food is arable.

Assuming for a moment that you're serious or even a little accurate, consider for a moment the cost of the infrastructure the human race has built over centuries based on traditional climate patterns. Now imagine build all that again, no not from scratch, but it's still a vast endeavour that we will struggle and suffer to make succeed, if we even can.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#48

Post by davidw » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:13 PM UTC

manmal wrote: post #46

52-6F-62 wrote: post #2

Anecdotal: Here in Toronto, it's been 16˚C this past week. In February. We've had about 2 or 3 real snowfalls that stuck around for a few days before melting. As somebody who loves ice skating outside, it's really frustrating. And I love the snow. Every year it seems like the winter gets a little milder...

It seems the cold moved to central Europe, giving us -15 degrees celsius at night in the upcoming week.

Some of it's here on the west coast of the US too. It hit -18C here in central Oregon the other day, and has been snowing a bunch.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#49

Post by toasterlovin » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

loverofthings wrote: post #43

brentm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point believing or not believing in climate change is analogous to religion. I have trouble believing any facts or data would swing a significant portion of either side of the debate. Denying climate change is easy. We're not going to see places like New York City move swiftly underwater and the problem is so abstract it's easy to call BS. Short of Trump changing his mind and using his super power of convinci…

In similar ways, majority of people that believe in climate change do nothing (or barely anything) to fight it. No one is reducing their heating/cooling, no one is changing their diet, no one is measuring their heating patterns and trying to optimize it (by no one I mean barely anyone). People still want their 24/7 AC, their steaks, their huge cars, their big heat inefficient houses, their plane flights etc. No one d…

It's even worse than that: the small percentage of people who have changed their consumption patterns out of concern for the environment are probably having zero or negative impact.

For instance, the following products are worse for the environment than their alternatives:

1. Hand-crafted, locally produced goods

2. Non-factory farmed food

3. Organic food

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#50

Post by bleachedsleet » Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

zipwitch wrote: post #36

brentm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point believing or not believing in climate change is analogous to religion. I have trouble believing any facts or data would swing a significant portion of either side of the debate. Denying climate change is easy. We're not going to see places like New York City move swiftly underwater and the problem is so abstract it's easy to call BS. Short of Trump changing his mind and using his super power of convinci…

Climate change denialism has more in common with Flat Earth Theory than religion of any stripe. (Which makes so many Americans buying into it all the more frighting.)

...and flat earth theory also has a lot in common with religion.

I'm sorry, but it is impossible to be a truly intelligent person that also believes in any religion without serious cherry picking or psychological compartmentalization. I say this as someone that loves studying religion (I have a degree in it), but I study it as an artform of human expression or an oddity that once was, not as a serious pursuit of self-completion. Hopefully, we can one day study those that deny basic climate science and geology the same way...