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Pro-gun Russian bots flood Twitter after parkland shooting

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Re: Pro-gun Russian bots flood Twitter after parkland shooting

#41

Post by alkonaut »

sparrish wrote: post #32
alkonaut wrote: post #9

I can see how certain aspects of US politics are interesting to russian botnets (assuming they too are politically controlled to some extent, which I think is safe to say). Foreign policy is very much dependent on who is president, and US foregin policy is amatter of billions of dollars for Russia. But gun laws? What's the reasoning behind that? It doesn't add up. On the contrary, it would rather seem like some group…

Certainly it's about sowing discord... but don't kid yourself, the US does the exact same thing to Russia on any controversial issue there. And don't think the US wasn't bringing its influence to bear during Russian elections. This is all same-old-same-old that's been going on for years.

US elections are at least superficially free and fair. Imho leaders that don’t hold fair elections also give up the expectation of other nations keeping out of them.

So while there is certainly back-and-forth here, I can’t see any moral issues with anyone meddling in Russian elections. It’s likely even necessary if the current regime is to be changed (which I think will be harder than in 1990).

The US obviously also meddle with more or less acceptable means in countries that do have free and fair elections but that’s a different topic.

Re: Pro-gun Russian bots flood Twitter after parkland shooting

#42

Post by irickt »

m00g00 wrote: post #40
jacquesm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To roughly the same extent that throwing burning matches around in an area plagued by drought isn't going to affect the outcome, yes. See, it can take a long time before a fire erupts from a natural cause but if you are aiming for it the outcome is pretty much guaranteed.

I think the analogy is more like trying to pin an execution on one particular member of the firing squad. Everyone is throwing matches, at the same time, into an already burning dumpster fire.

No. It is an asymmetric strategy. One "side" wants chaos more than the other. That other is in fact all those interested basic democratic stability. The construct of "sides" is created artificially by these tactics in order to divide.

Re: Pro-gun Russian bots flood Twitter after parkland shooting

#43

Post by m00g00 »

irickt wrote: post #42
m00g00 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the analogy is more like trying to pin an execution on one particular member of the firing squad. Everyone is throwing matches, at the same time, into an already burning dumpster fire.

No. It is an asymmetric strategy. One "side" wants chaos more than the other. That other is in fact all those interested basic democratic stability. The construct of "sides" is created artificially by these tactics in order to divide.

Come on....do you really think there are no legitimate sides to contentious political issues like gun control? How about abortion? That "other side" you speak of, presumably actual US citizens, is not interested in "basic democratic stability", they just want their political argument to win out and become (or remain) law. That's where the division comes from, not conjured out of thin air by the Russians.

But the fact remains that whether you are an outside instigator looking to sow discord, a citizen participating in a political flamewar, a politician looking to whip up their base, or the mass media looking for clicks, the tactics are exactly the same. You could wrap a bubble around the United States and cutoff all outside communication and you would not see much difference.

If anything pours gasoline on this fire it is the detachment of social interactions on the internet. And that Twitter is such a hotbed of political "discussion" is a sad testament to the times, considering its very design precludes the possibility of respectful, informed discourse.

Re: Pro-gun Russian bots flood Twitter after parkland shooting

#44

Post by irickt »

m00g00 wrote: post #43
irickt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It is an asymmetric strategy. One "side" wants chaos more than the other. That other is in fact all those interested basic democratic stability. The construct of "sides" is created artificially by these tactics in order to divide.

Come on....do you really think there are no legitimate sides to contentious political issues like gun control? How about abortion? That "other side" you speak of, presumably actual US citizens, is not interested in "basic democratic stability", they just want their political argument to win out and become (or remain) law. That's where the division comes from, not conjured out of thin air by the Russians. But the fact…

I took the topic to be the tactic of intentionally causing chaos in political discussion. Your frame is general polical disagreement. We are talking past each other.

Re: Pro-gun Russian bots flood Twitter after parkland shooting

#45

Post by m00g00 »

irickt wrote: post #44
m00g00 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on....do you really think there are no legitimate sides to contentious political issues like gun control? How about abortion? That "other side" you speak of, presumably actual US citizens, is not interested in "basic democratic stability", they just want their political argument to win out and become (or remain) law. That's where the division comes from, not conjured out of thin air by the Russians. But the fact…

I took the topic to be the tactic of intentionally causing chaos in political discussion. Your frame is general polical disagreement. We are talking past each other.

My point was our "general political disagreement" is the chaos. It's not being caused by an outside source. That's just an excuse, and a cudgel used to dismiss one sides ideas. We would not all be holding hands and singing kumbaya if it were not for the Russians. We've been whipping ourselves up into a frenzy for awhile now, and I think we like doing it. The internet helps too.

Re: Pro-gun Russian bots flood Twitter after parkland shooting

#46

Post by stmfreak »

alkonaut wrote: post #9

I can see how certain aspects of US politics are interesting to russian botnets (assuming they too are politically controlled to some extent, which I think is safe to say). Foreign policy is very much dependent on who is president, and US foregin policy is amatter of billions of dollars for Russia. But gun laws? What's the reasoning behind that? It doesn't add up. On the contrary, it would rather seem like some group…

More likely this story is designed to undermine natural pro-gun sentiment amongst U.S. Citizens who we can now dismiss as being influenced by Russian Twitter bots. This is the same tactic used to explain Trump's victory in the election.

Re: Pro-gun Russian bots flood Twitter after parkland shooting

#47

Post by dionian »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
dionian wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That works as long as there are ways to ascertain what is rumor and falsehood and what is fact. Are you saying that is that the job of the State?

No, but neither is it the job of the state to facilitate those that wish to destabilize it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. This thread has been flagged to death now so I don't think there will be much more discussion. Pity.

indeed
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