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Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

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Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#41
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a HUMONGOUS difference between owner of a business and employed by a business. Makes sense for the "10th richest person in the world" to work long hours. It's his call. He is working basically for himself. Totally different when you're making say 50K and the "10th richest person in the world" wants YOU to work all day every day too.

There's nothing wrong with being passionate about your job

Wanting to work all the time and being passionate aren't the same thing.

Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#42
The article profiles people in a bunch of professional firms, but ignores the changing market for those professionals. An ABA study showed that in 1965, a typical billable hour target for a lawyer was 1200-1600. Today, 2000 hours is a typical target. That can’t be explained by culture. Law has always drawn “insecure overachievers.” In reality, it’s due to the changing marketplace. Decades ago, it would be highly unusual for Philadelphia company to retain a DC firm for a matter. Today, it’s routine—your competition is nationwide. Golfing with local business people doesn’t cut it for business development anymore. And like other industries, the work has shifted to larger players in big markets (NYC/Chicago/SF/DC).

External competition also breeds internal competition. I used to work at a firm in New York. There was no competition in the partnership, by design: everyone was paid in a lock step fashion strictly by seniority. Business development meant checking your messages when you got back from lunch. Partnership was for life and partners never left. That was typical 30-40 years ago. Today it’s very much the exception, a model retained by a handful of firms that have major institutional relationships. The typical model today is “eat what you kill.” Partners are compensated based on how much business they bring in, and regularly hop from firm to firm depending on who is offering the best pay package.

Of course all this isn’t necessarily bad. Increased competition means more work, more hours, more availability. But where there is a lack of competition, that’s often a sign of people being kept down. Back in 1965, many firms didn’t hire Jews, Asians, African Americans, women, etc. Business was given out over drinks instead of having competing firms pitch for it in a transparent way. All of those things increase competition and decrease the value of “good old boy” networks.

Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#44
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see you use "That's patronizing", I feel conflicted because it seems to be in the same evaluative style as "That's sad". I am not sure if it's constructive to use a style being criticized against a person. (this is me practicing nonviolent communication or something :)

The solution is not to feel offended when you're being criticized. As long it doesn't get abusive.

That's fair--it sounds like you're saying a person receiving criticism should be resilient to that criticism to some extent. I'm interested in hearing what you think the solution (if any) is for the person giving the criticism.

(to be clear, I don't feel offended by the parent comment)

Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#45
post #7

Because I like to work. People who don't like to work often misunderstand this when looking at the stories of successful people. They think successful people force themselves to work hard in order to be successful. In fact successful people often like their work so much that there's nothing else they'd rather do. I doubt for example that there's anything Jeff Bezos would rather do than run Amazon. I bet it seems to h…

The article isn’t talking about Jeff Bezos, but the associate at the law/consulting/banking firm staying up all night papering up the Whole Foods merger.

Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#46

You can have meaning or you can have happiness. You cannot have both -- at least not all of the time. This conflict can be seen clearly in a movie like "Office Space", where both the male and female leads are working for happiness (and survival) whereas the work environment expects them to be working for meaning. (How many pieces of flair are you wearing?) The trick to this discussion is that people on one side of th…

I used to work 60 hours a week because I absolutely loved what I did. It gave me meaning. Then I had a son and it fell to 40... Then 30... Then I quit. Now I'm home with him and absolutely love what I'm doing. I still feel successful nurturing a little human. It gives me more meaning than my job ever did. Financially I need to work again, but I doubt it will ever be the nexus of my day.

What a great story. And so now you spend 60, 70, or more hours a week with your son, which gives your life meaning.

Nobody said you have to have the same values for your entire life, or that somehow you have to go punch a clock to make a difference in the world. This is about happiness and meaning, not work or family. The two don't have to have anything to do with one another.

You and you alone decide what your values are and what gives your life meaning -- and whatever that is can and probably should (?) change throughout your life.

Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#47
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. My father told me a story of when he was stuck in traffic with somebody who was then about the 10th richest person in the world. To make conversation, my father asked him what his plans for the coming year were. The guy listed all sorts of business goals. My father asked if he had anything personally that he was planning. The guy basically replied that those were his personal plans. He made no distinction be…

There is a HUMONGOUS difference between owner of a business and employed by a business. Makes sense for the "10th richest person in the world" to work long hours. It's his call. He is working basically for himself. Totally different when you're making say 50K and the "10th richest person in the world" wants YOU to work all day every day too.

This hits the nail on the head. Most of the value that you're creating is captured by someone else. So why should you be expected to spend all your life to benefit someone else's interests?

It's quite strange that today slavery is a completely taboo subject (rightfully so) and yet workplace slavery is not only tolerated but encouraged. It's essentailly the same; someone else uses their coercive power over you to essentially steal a big chunk of your life. The worst part is that it's a first-in best-dressed, roll-of-the-dice kind of game.

Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#48
Working 70 hrs a week is a signal to me that one is not competent. Computers work for me, not the other way around. As for the people with "bullshit jobs" I assume they do it because of imposter syndrome. The only other category I can think of is doctors, doing it because there's literally no one else who can save a life. That's a management/credentialism issue.

Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#49
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where will this lead? How would you react if you were laid off ?

You’re replying to the CEO of Apple.

This is great! I'm probably a high c* so if apple are hiring I'm in!

* hello Dunning Kruger!

Re: Why are successful professionals still working 70 hours a week?

#50

You can have meaning or you can have happiness. You cannot have both -- at least not all of the time. This conflict can be seen clearly in a movie like "Office Space", where both the male and female leads are working for happiness (and survival) whereas the work environment expects them to be working for meaning. (How many pieces of flair are you wearing?) The trick to this discussion is that people on one side of th…

I used to work 60 hours a week because I absolutely loved what I did. It gave me meaning. Then I had a son and it fell to 40... Then 30... Then I quit. Now I'm home with him and absolutely love what I'm doing. I still feel successful nurturing a little human. It gives me more meaning than my job ever did. Financially I need to work again, but I doubt it will ever be the nexus of my day.

Are you male or female?
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