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Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#41

Post by debt »

volgo wrote: post #2

This is ridiculous. They're claiming that merely associating himself with the government is a tacit support of Trump's attack on science. Bill is there to promote NASA's space exploration initiative. If you withdraw from participating in the government for the mere reason that it's connected to Trump in general, you're not gonna push any of your agendas forward.

The problem is he's "the science guy" which by extension many laypeople associate with actual scientists.

By attending the SOTU, to laypeople it makes it look like scientists agree with the president's positions on climate change.

Unfortunately, I believe this demonization of Bill Nye is appropriate.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#43

Post by craig1f »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
pducks32 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I’d agree with you I’d submit that a lot of the science community has odd feelings about Bill Nye so I can see how that can exacerbate people into writing things like this. Maybe they wouldn’t normally believe that and would agree with you but this circumstance changed that. Idk

I don’t care for Bill Nye or Neil deGrasse Tyson personally, but science needs every advocate in these dark times.

A bad advocate undoes the work of a good advocate. Bill Nye doesn't really use scientific methods. His last show was a mess, because he made assertions he didn't back up.

Bill Nye has done good work on the past, but he is undoing the work he has done lately.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#44

Post by toomuchtodo »

craig1f wrote: post #43
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t care for Bill Nye or Neil deGrasse Tyson personally, but science needs every advocate in these dark times.

A bad advocate undoes the work of a good advocate. Bill Nye doesn't really use scientific methods. His last show was a mess, because he made assertions he didn't back up. Bill Nye has done good work on the past, but he is undoing the work he has done lately.

Perfect is the enemy of good enough. We have congressional reps who proclaim there is no global warming because it still snows (while holding up a snowball on the floor of Congress). Again, every advocate is needed, even if they make mistakes (as we all do).

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#46

Post by JustSomeNobody »

debt wrote: post #41
volgo wrote: post #2

This is ridiculous. They're claiming that merely associating himself with the government is a tacit support of Trump's attack on science. Bill is there to promote NASA's space exploration initiative. If you withdraw from participating in the government for the mere reason that it's connected to Trump in general, you're not gonna push any of your agendas forward.

The problem is he's "the science guy" which by extension many laypeople associate with actual scientists. By attending the SOTU, to laypeople it makes it look like scientists agree with the president's positions on climate change. Unfortunately, I believe this demonization of Bill Nye is appropriate.

How is this an appropriate attitude to have? Not attacking you, but are you saying that NO scientist or "science guys" can try and influence politics right now just because there is someone in the office who, very obviously, doesn't understand science?

Edit: I believe if you want to change behavior, you model the behavior yourself. If you shut yourself out of the discussion, then so will others. You don't tell people how to fish, you show them how to fish. You don't tell people to learn science, you show them the science.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#47

Post by chris_wot »

“The views expressed are those of the author(s) and are not necessarily those of Scientific American.”

That’s kind of ironic. The author’s claim that Bill Nye claims to speak for the entire scientific community (really?!?) and yet it seems they imply they speak for the entire scientific community. Under whose authority?

There are so many issues here. Firstly, what do they want? It seems they say if you are a scientist you can’t advise Trump or his team. Sure, Trump is a troglodyte and his science congressman is very much anti-science, but you can’t advise him or attend the U.S. government’s State of the Union?

Secondly, they called him a combatitive and nerdy white guy. Apparently that means he can’t promote science because by his very existence he promotes an outdated stereotype of scientists. All-righty then.

Thirdly, they mention him debating Ken Ham. Apparently, this was the sole reason Ham could make a Creationist museum. What utter hog-wash. Sure, the museum is an oddity, but America allows and even often rejoices in its oddballs. That’s because it celebrates diversity - the very thing they are upset about in the Trump Whitehouse. And it’s not at all apparent to me that Bill Nye made Ham get enough funds for his museum - sure it may have helped but Ken Ham would almost certainly have gotten those funds anyway, eventually. And what was Nye’s alternative? Not debate him? Then Ham could claim that his argument is so strong that scientists like Ham are afraid of debating him!

This article, frankly, is bullshit. I agree with their concerns over Trump’s deliberate degradation of science in America. But dragging Bill Nye into this is absurd, and completely counter-productive.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#48

Post by chris_wot »

amha wrote: post #23

What's frustrating here is the attitude that if you agree with (or work with) someone on some particular topic, then you are necessarily endorsing that person's views on EVERY topic. In other words, you should never associate with someone unless you agree with 100% of their views. If we brought this attitude into our personal lives, it would make our interactions with family members and colleagues impossible! I disag…

Only associating with people whose views are in complete alignment with your own is a good way to become lonely, angry, and ineffective.

Ironically, it’s exactly what the current White House does.

edit: I’ve been rate limited (I have no idea why!), but I was going to reply that I didn’t think this was a good thing.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#49

Post by timmytwotime »

Meerax wrote: post #18

If his mere attendance demonstrates approval and acceptance of climate deniers etc., then every politician in the room that campaigns against these various platforms is equally in trouble. But this article only singles out one person, who is by his own admission only there to support NASA. " Further, from his position of privilege and public popularity, Bill Nye is acting on the scientific community’s behalf, but wit…

Agreed, nor has he retracted or corrected any previous stance he has ever taken on climate change simply because he's going.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#50

Post by dkarl »

volgo wrote: post #2

This is ridiculous. They're claiming that merely associating himself with the government is a tacit support of Trump's attack on science. Bill is there to promote NASA's space exploration initiative. If you withdraw from participating in the government for the mere reason that it's connected to Trump in general, you're not gonna push any of your agendas forward.

He isn't just doing business with the government, talking with policy-makers, or showing up to make sure his side is represented. He's attending a formal event as the official guest of a partisan politician. They aren't there to talk or work or negotiate. They're there to appear. And Bill Nye has offered his appearance, his own personal halo, to an enemy of science and an enemy of many decent values that scientists hold dear.

If you want to consider this part of the long game of Bill Nye using his power in Washington, fine. What does this accomplish? It tells Republicans that they can buy anything from him if they offer him TV exposure. Don't you think if he cared a little bit less about his own celebrity he could have maybe done something good with it?

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