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A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

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Re: A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

#41

Post by jderick »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #33
xutopia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Woebot to escape the grasp of depression. Multiple life challenges occurred at the same time (health issues, death, divorce, restructuration, etc...). Woebot helped me change thought patterns that kept me from getting help and it could do so at any time of the day or night. When going to see your counsellor is too hard Woebot is only a ping away and is free. Now not to discount your point that indeed some…

I agree with you. Although it seems intuitive that only a human could assist with complex mental issues, the mind is very strange and susceptible to these hacks. There's no reason small children should feel comforted by a stuffed animal, but they do, and it can provide an experience very much like human contact for them. I went through several bouts of extreme depression, and I might only be alive because I discovere…

You can probably find cheaper dinnerware at goodwill.

Re: A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

#43

Post by pnathan »

meesterdude wrote: post #6

i tried it. it clearly had a script, and my answers were all emoji or one word (they render for you as options to press). So... really was a "next...next...next.." kind of experience. And then it was done with me for the day, after it rambled about making mistakes. There is a vibe of "i'm one of the cool kids", like when parents try to "level" with their teenagers. And the machine learning appears rudimentary or perh…

Yeah, running through a flow chart with a "hello cool kids" vibe was... offputting. Maybe it's enjoyed by many.

Re: A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

#44

Post by jdietrich »

kingkawn wrote: post #12

The notion that the impact of talk therapy comes purely from the intellectual discourse seems to me severely misguided. It is the experience of being with the other person and their acceptance of your pain that does so much of the work. To reduce it to the intellect divorced from all physicality seems like a travesty that will only alleviate symptoms experienced while alone, and will do nothing to reacclimate you to…

>The notion that the impact of talk therapy comes purely from the intellectual discourse seems to me severely misguided.

The evidence suggests otherwise. Internet-based CBT does not seem to be markedly inferior to face-to-face CBT, which is the current gold-standard talk therapy. We really don't have any evidence that the human contact element of psychotherapy is integral or even significant to the effectiveness of the therapy.

We should also be careful to avoid letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. There are many barriers to psychological care, from cost to stigma to simple availability. For the overwhelming majority of people worldwide, it isn't a choice between internet-based CBT or face-to-face psychotherapy - it's a choice between internet-based CBT or no treatment at all. Even if internet-based CBT is significantly inferior, it still has the potential to prevent immense amounts of suffering and death.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25273302

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25590119

Re: A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

#45

Post by jdietrich »

yathern wrote: post #5
spuz wrote: post #2

> The students were split into two groups — one was assigned to chat with Woebot over two weeks, while the other was directed to read an e-book about depression. Unlike the students in the e-book group, those using Woebot said they saw a significant reduction in their depressive symptoms. It sounds interesting. It also reminds me of ELIZA[1] a chat bot designed in the 60s to demonstrate the superficiality of human co…

I wish there were a control group - it could very well be that reading an e-book about depression can cause a regression in depressive symptoms.

We've run quite a number of randomised controlled trials on self-help books. They work.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22215865

Re: A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

#47

Post by friendly_chap »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #33
xutopia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Woebot to escape the grasp of depression. Multiple life challenges occurred at the same time (health issues, death, divorce, restructuration, etc...). Woebot helped me change thought patterns that kept me from getting help and it could do so at any time of the day or night. When going to see your counsellor is too hard Woebot is only a ping away and is free. Now not to discount your point that indeed some…

I agree with you. Although it seems intuitive that only a human could assist with complex mental issues, the mind is very strange and susceptible to these hacks. There's no reason small children should feel comforted by a stuffed animal, but they do, and it can provide an experience very much like human contact for them. I went through several bouts of extreme depression, and I might only be alive because I discovere…

I am not a psychologist but to me it seems like you have anger issues perhaps and you direct that to your plates which you can destroy?

Anger always finds a target, and when you don't allow yourself to be angry at someone or something the target becomes yourself and (mostly mental) illness results.

Re: A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

#48

Post by jm__87 »

kingkawn wrote: post #12

The notion that the impact of talk therapy comes purely from the intellectual discourse seems to me severely misguided. It is the experience of being with the other person and their acceptance of your pain that does so much of the work. To reduce it to the intellect divorced from all physicality seems like a travesty that will only alleviate symptoms experienced while alone, and will do nothing to reacclimate you to…

One commonality across a few different mental health disorders is that an individual can have a set of irrational thoughts that they believe to be true. Knowing that a thought is just a thought and our thoughts are often not an accurate reflection of reality is a conclusion you can come to through conversation alone. Being able to recognize an irrational thought and label it as irrational or incorrect may help.

Another possibility is that you can have thoughts which are absolutely reflective of reality but which are causing you distress. These thoughts are not at all useful to your well being, yet you are spending an inordinate amount of time thinking about them anyway. Learning how to become more aware of these thought patterns and how to steer away from them in to more useful thought patterns will help improve your well being over time.

The key in both of these scenarios is learning how to be more aware of your own thoughts and feelings and manage them appropriately.

Re: A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

#49

Post by jdietrich »

moron4hire wrote: post #3

The efficacy of drugs, specifically Lexapro, on my anxiety cannot be understated. I had attempted lots of different "mindfulness" techniques and other types of talk therapy. They seemed like they worked, sorta, at the time. But being on Lexapro is so night and day different that it makes all those other attempts clearly an exercise in futility. Like with everything, if you can't tell it's working, it's not working. S…

>Stop guessing. Go talk to your doctor.

Your doctor will also guess. There are about 20 drug treatments and a dozen or so talk therapies that are all about equally effective at treating depression and anxiety. We have no evidence-based way of figuring out which treatment will work better for which patient. It's a total crapshoot, even for psychiatrists.

Anecdotally, escitalopram worked for you. A thirty second Google search will turn up hundreds of anecdotal reports saying that escitalopram is worse than the devil incarnate. The evidence says that it's no better or worse than a laundry-list of other treatments. You got lucky.

With that said, talking to your doctor is a sensible decision.

Re: A therapy chatbot and app for depression and anxiety

#50

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

moh_maya wrote: post #38
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, having lived most of my life in varying states of depression and having seen doctors when it was at its worst and I was diagnosed with major clinical depression, it is my considered opinion that treating depression is one of those things that doctors are really crap at. The problem seems to me to be that they have a high confidence in a model that isn't very good. Which isn't to say that drugs can'…

So I agree that there's been a move away from "low seretonin == depression" and the model that depression is due to low seretonin (if it was even in favour), is giving way to "it's much more complex. We don't understand too well". [1] And, there is an argument that is made that such drugs aren't effective anyway (or no more than placebo). However, I think that's an over simplification [2]. And I don't necessarily acc…

I'm a largely ignorant nobody with no medical degree, but from my perspective this doesn't look like treatment, it looks more like sacrificing chickens and trying to re-balance the humors, claiming victory when the condition clears up and thats why what works for person X may not work for person Y. If the model was any good, then the relationship between treatment and result would be much more consistent, you'd be able to say why what worked for X won't work for Y.

It's possible I'm just bitter from my experience with doctors over the years.

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