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Why the Job Search Sucks

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Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#41

Post by Clubber »

codingdave wrote: post #13

> At least I know not to waste my time waiting on you. So don't. If they don't meet your communication expectations, then it isn't a good match anyway. So don't wait. Move along. > These tests and whiteboarding are not indicative of your skill level No, they indicate your ability to work and talk through problems. I'm not sure where this idea that whiteboarding is about skill level came from. You can cram/study algor…

>But you can't fake the thinking process, or how you approach a problem. You can't fake your communication style. And that is what doing it in a stressful situation shows - how do you really think and communicate under pressure?

Totally different type of pressure. You're assuming timeline pressure and social pressure is the same thing. It is not.

>does anyone ever get a better result in their job search after ranting about it online?

I don't believe that was his objective. Maybe some hiring manager will read this while simultaneously complaining about not being able to find anyone and a light will come on. Maybe not.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#42

Post by NetOpWibby »

dvt wrote: post #38

I've been unemployed for ~4 months now (by choice) and it's been the best time of my life. Yeah, I'm burning through my savings, but I can focus on projects that make me happy, I can focus on honing skills I actually care about, and I don't have to partake in endless meetings that serve no purpose whatsoever. What I realized as I entered my 30s is that some people are okay with that. Some people are okay with endless…

Having the privilege of being unemployed by choice sounds amazing. Unfortunately, I was blindsided by my employment and didn't have enough to just take it easy all this time. Thankfully, unemployment exists and I've been able to pay my important bills on time.

This experience has reshaped how I think about savings though, that's for sure.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#43

Post by kaspm »

A candidate we passed on reached out and asked for more specific feedback about why we passed. I happened to have some time over the holidays and agreed to provide him with some additional information personally and to meet up for coffee.

> It's not you: The first thing I told him was that 80% of whether you get hired at a company is nothing you can do anything about. It depends on the company, your skills, their needs gap, the timing, the manager, so if you're batting .200, that's pretty good.

The second thing was that there were some really basic stuff to make sure you're doing every time you interview that you CAN control to narrow that gap further:

> Dress: wear dark jeans, nice shoes, a button down dress shirt. This outfit is almost never "too fancy" or "too casual". If the company requires more fancy than that, might want to question if you're a good fit (unless you like wearing a suit shudder)

> Give Specific Examples: Always try to start your answer with a summary, then give a specific example then abstract it into a generalized theory. Don't start with the generalized theory and never give specifics

> Know your stuff: If you list something on your resume, especially in a recent job, make sure you can not only explain it but that you have an opinion about it and that you've considered other opinions.

Edit: the outfit above applies mainly to men, I'm less versed in what the equivalent would be for women. If someone wants to add that, I am sure it would be helpful.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#44

Post by Clubber »

azangru wrote: post #36
barryhoodlum wrote: post #12

"I state upfront that I have zero React experience because 99.999999% of tech companies want someone with 18 years of experience with a four-year-old JavaScript framework. I'm being facetious here but that requirement is ridiculous for a fad. Writing CSS in JS? GROSS." You don't have experience 99% of employers want, and your response is to stubbornly write it off as a fad? Maybe that's got something to do with it? I…

I am actually wondering how many readers of the blog post rolled their eyes here. I am not saying that React is the best thing ever; there may be different arguments against using it, but man, this "CSS in JS" (or, alternatively, "HTML in JS") argument is not even funny anymore. I would have discarded this as a meaningless complaint coming from a hardcore backend developer who is repeating the principles of single re…

As a mostly back end developer, snazzy front end templates are either cheap or free.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#45

Post by jaredcwhite »

codingdave wrote: post #13

> At least I know not to waste my time waiting on you. So don't. If they don't meet your communication expectations, then it isn't a good match anyway. So don't wait. Move along. > These tests and whiteboarding are not indicative of your skill level No, they indicate your ability to work and talk through problems. I'm not sure where this idea that whiteboarding is about skill level came from. You can cram/study algor…

Not a fan of the OP's language, but in terms of the overall rant, actually I'm absolutely going to be more interested in hiring somebody who is calling it for what it is. Lengthy and convoluted interview processes and non sequitur whiteboard sessions are the scourge of the industry. The more programmers revolt and refuse to accept these bizarre practices, the better.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#46

Post by NetOpWibby »

barryhoodlum wrote: post #12

"I state upfront that I have zero React experience because 99.999999% of tech companies want someone with 18 years of experience with a four-year-old JavaScript framework. I'm being facetious here but that requirement is ridiculous for a fad. Writing CSS in JS? GROSS." You don't have experience 99% of employers want, and your response is to stubbornly write it off as a fad? Maybe that's got something to do with it? I…

I have zero experience in writing applications with it but I do know of it. I investigate it every now and then to see what's going on with it. Even I started writing a React app the day I became unemployed, I still wouldn't have the years of experience a lot of these companies are asking for.

Maybe "fad" wasn't the best word choice but you know how it is. How many frameworks are introduced to HN? You never know which one is going to be popular.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#47

Post by nickthemagicman »

expertentipp wrote: post #17

> Writing CSS in JS? GROSS. Similarly jsx is writing HTML in JS. The whole evolution of web was to separate, modularize, componentize the concepts (DOMs, CSS, JS, HTML5 APIs, templates etc.), what on fucking earth happened?

It's still separated, modularized, componentized, just on a web component level instead of a file level.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#49

Post by Clubber »

dvt wrote: post #38

I've been unemployed for ~4 months now (by choice) and it's been the best time of my life. Yeah, I'm burning through my savings, but I can focus on projects that make me happy, I can focus on honing skills I actually care about, and I don't have to partake in endless meetings that serve no purpose whatsoever. What I realized as I entered my 30s is that some people are okay with that. Some people are okay with endless…

I recently took a 4 month sabbatical and it was wonderful. A friend of mine at a new company called me up looking for help, so it ended up being only 2 months, but I've replenished my "oh shit," fund and will take some more time off after this gig ends in a few years.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#50

Post by SilasX »

codingdave wrote: post #13

> At least I know not to waste my time waiting on you. So don't. If they don't meet your communication expectations, then it isn't a good match anyway. So don't wait. Move along. > These tests and whiteboarding are not indicative of your skill level No, they indicate your ability to work and talk through problems. I'm not sure where this idea that whiteboarding is about skill level came from. You can cram/study algor…

>No, they indicate your ability to work and talk through problems. I'm not sure where this idea that whiteboarding is about skill level came from. You can cram/study algorithms. But you can't fake the thinking process, or how you approach a problem. You can't fake your communication style. And that is what doing it in a stressful situation shows - how do you really think and communicate under pressure?

Right, and that's fine, so long as the interviewers are actually using it that way, rather than just, "did they reinvent this obscure algorithm? yes/no"

The complaint is that, in practice, most of them are doing the latter.

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