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How Taiwan transformed its health care system

nytimes.com

41–50 of 94 posts

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#41
post #11
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's missing the antecedent. So for this to make sense in Eng it should read: It's not missing the antecedent, it's near the end of the previous sentence, just like the other person you replied to said. Singapore, which we wrote about in October, tinkers with its health care system all the time. Taiwan, in contrast, revamped its top to bottom. The its clearly refers to health care system from the previous sentence.

True enough. It's just not common usage to use "its" as an absolute possessive like that. Whereas other possessives lend themselves to that usage. In other words it's typically used as a possessive determiner in this construction. It's somewhat similar to the following: -Have you eaten? -Yes, I've.

And thus your first statement gets completely overshadowed by a minor, and to me meaningless, grammatical discussion.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#42
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visited Taiwan, I needed to get some urgent dental care done. I went to a small local clinic, where the dentist spoke good enough english, did great work (including x-rays) and my total uninsured bill was less than my co-pay in the US would have been. It is good AND affordable.

The average American dentist earns $175,000, the median is ~$155,000. What do you propose to do about that to reduce their income considerably to bring down overall costs vs what a dentist in Taiwan earns? US GDP per capita is nearly three times that of Taiwan, incomes are likewise far higher. It's equivalent to comparing costs in Switzerland versus Czech and being surprised that Switzerland is so much higher.

I would be very fine paying 3x the rate of Taiwan as the uninsured rate for dentistry. I understand that the cost of labor is different.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#43

Culture helps - everyone here wants to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. Taiwanese doctors don't get paid in money. They get paid "credits" which have to be exchanged for money based on a parallel financial system. Foreigners here sometimes complain that there's a focus on seeing more patients faster, so there might be a misdiagnosis or a less thorough examination. The fact remains though - it's cheaper to fly here t…

> Taiwanese doctors don't get paid in money. > They get paid "credits" which have to be exchanged for money based on a parallel financial system. This is really interesting. Had a quick google and couldn’t find anything. Do you have a link with more details?

Maybe they get paid with blockchain-based currency. (I kid..)

Maybe he means doctors get paid with status, and if you're a doctor you get better rates for loans.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#44
post #31

This is interesting because there is so much conflicting information. On one hand several people mention they received timely inexpensive care in single-payer system and on other hand there are example of people who were told to wait in line for weeks or get denied of their desired treatment option. It appears that Taiwan's system is certainly getting stretched now and they have been putting up new constraints and ca…

With most US based insurance being employer based I don't see how the "we only cover x because of y" really is a discriminating function between single payer vs multiple. My ability to choose an employer based on their health care plan is challenging at best. I may be missing something however as I mostly know the US system

If you have good top tier employer, chances are that you have pretty good insurance. Medical insurance is actually a criteria for lot of people for which employers to work for. This however probably applies to more skilled workers who have such choices. In single-payer, your employer no longer provides insurance. So everyone gets same plan and you are stuck with it.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#45
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With most US based insurance being employer based I don't see how the "we only cover x because of y" really is a discriminating function between single payer vs multiple. My ability to choose an employer based on their health care plan is challenging at best. I may be missing something however as I mostly know the US system

If you have good top tier employer, chances are that you have pretty good insurance. Medical insurance is actually a criteria for lot of people for which employers to work for. This however probably applies to more skilled workers who have such choices. In single-payer, your employer no longer provides insurance. So everyone gets same plan and you are stuck with it.

Yup, the idea for for profit driven healthcare sounds bad until you consider the alternative which is cost minimization driven, the easiest way to cut costs is to not provide service

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#46
For balance, this is a good summary of the issues that Taiwan's NHI system faces:

https://english.cw.com.tw/article/article.action?id=1662

It matches the complaints I've heard from several nurses quite well. Idiots with a harmless common cold clog hospital waiting rooms just because it's cheap and convenient. Not just doctors, but also nurses are underpaid and will jump ship if they can.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#47

Culture helps - everyone here wants to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. Taiwanese doctors don't get paid in money. They get paid "credits" which have to be exchanged for money based on a parallel financial system. Foreigners here sometimes complain that there's a focus on seeing more patients faster, so there might be a misdiagnosis or a less thorough examination. The fact remains though - it's cheaper to fly here t…

Chap I worked with used to fly back to Terhan for his dentist as well as visiting family - said his old dentist was cheaper and better than UK. Just wondering if part of that is simply cost of living difference?

Well UK dentistry has a different treatment philosophy than the USA for sure.. not sure if Iran is the same. The UK would claim the US overtreats. This is changing though due to private insurance va the NHS and a desire for white straight teeth.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#48
post #45
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have good top tier employer, chances are that you have pretty good insurance. Medical insurance is actually a criteria for lot of people for which employers to work for. This however probably applies to more skilled workers who have such choices. In single-payer, your employer no longer provides insurance. So everyone gets same plan and you are stuck with it.

Yup, the idea for for profit driven healthcare sounds bad until you consider the alternative which is cost minimization driven, the easiest way to cut costs is to not provide service

It’s the same doctors regardless... insurance companies are cost minimizers as well.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#49
post #31

This is interesting because there is so much conflicting information. On one hand several people mention they received timely inexpensive care in single-payer system and on other hand there are example of people who were told to wait in line for weeks or get denied of their desired treatment option. It appears that Taiwan's system is certainly getting stretched now and they have been putting up new constraints and ca…

Isn't some form of supplemental private health insurance available in most single payer countries?

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#50

Taiwan does indeed have world class health care despite having an exceedingly low tax rate by western standards. But lets not overlook the elephant in the room. Taiwan is an island full of thin people who eat rice or noodles at almost every meal. Millions of people still shop primarily at traditional markets and millions of others follow Buddhist diets that would be mocked by western "diet hackers". Only in the past…

Hi there! Taiwanese here. We invented boba (full of sugar and unhealthy), and our cuisine, while delicious, can be incredibly unhealthy. We are actually struggling to confront one of Asia's largest obesity epidemics. I think the notion that we're an island "full of thin people who eat rice or noodles at almost every meal" is not only a problematic and reductionist characterization, it ignores the problems that we fac…

Hi, there! Your comment is charactaristically un-Taiwanese, starting with the word "boba". That isn't the word people use for it in Taiwan (either in meaning of the characters or the sound). Most people don't understand boba (波霸) and I personally never encountered the word until visiting North America. In Taiwan, it's 珍珠奶茶.

> "people who eat rice or noodles at almost every meal" is not only a problematic and reductionist characterization"

Taiwanese people rarely talk like this either. In fact, the charactarisation you've quoted is one I repeated from national media. Furthermore, left-wing language police and phrases such as "problematic and reductionist" have yet to enter mainstream Taiwanese discourse. Quite the contrary, it's too far in the opposite direction.

Two pieces of anecdata: When commenting on how mannequins in Ximen are all white, except for the ones showcasing athletic wear, which are black, I've been politely told to piss off. Similarly, when I complained of a pub's unapologetic and blatant Nazi decor, I was told that I "think too much".

Operating on the principle of charity, I will assume you are Taiwanese and either live there now or did in your formative years and not a North American with little experience with the culture or local media of Taiwan who simply feels entitled to speak as an expert and scold strangers on the internet on the basis of your race. That would be problematic indeed.

Here's a quick way to understand where this generalisation came from: Simply walk into several local restaurants and look at the sections on a menus. Or try avoiding rice or noodles for even a single day when eating with your fellow Taiwanese over the age of 30. Yes, diets are changing and to the detriment of everyone's health. No, it's not impossible to see high level general differences between them and those in the west or differences in typical physiques or clothes sizes sold in typical malls.

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