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Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

nytimes.com

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Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#41

Post by [deleted] »

mikeash wrote: post #32
wernercd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, by and large, I don't trust people? I love my country and for the most part trust the Government... but on the same token - you'd have to be blind not to see how inefficient they are compared to private organizations (IE: Post Office compared to FedEx. Private Hospitals compared to the VA.) You'd also have to be blind to not see blatant growth and abuses of privileges. The ACA growing government meddling in…

The Post Office will send a letter to the other side of the country for 49 cents. How much would that cost from FedEx? They’re pretty competitive for packages too.

[deleted]

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#42

Post by maxerickson »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #37
maxerickson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-outp... Search "us manufacturing output history" if that isn't sufficient. It makes plenty of sense, even if the postwar era was a boom, the US population is much larger and external markets are much larger and richer.

It is not sufficient. That article is talking about manufacturing being the most dominant share in terms of sector. I am not disagreeing with that whatsoever. People complain about that because there are less jobs in manufacturing then there has ever been before.(Processes get more efficient, do not need as many people. This is a fact and not necessarily a bad thing.) That marketwatch article is somewhat skewed becau…

It's boldfaced:

Surprising Fact No. 2: Manufacturing output is a near a record high.

The decline of the global share of output is true, but it is sort of inevitable that ~5% of the global population will not maintain a vast share of global output. I'm also not terribly interested in arguing about whether Our ability to produce material goods really is greater than at any time in history. was a valid response to the post I responded too.

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#43

Post by Shivetya »

rayiner wrote: post #36

Of course the NYT would find a way to make a disaster caused by bad public governance all about evil “deep-pocketed” companies. The American Society of Civil Engineers rates our water infrastructure a “D.” That’s due to chronic underfunding, which in turn is caused by municipal governments setting water and sewer rates far too low to maintain and improve the existing infrastructure. Water infrastructure is a case stu…

Politicians prefer to cut ribbons than reinvest in existing infrastructure. Ribbon cutting gets face time and worse they prefer the bigger and more glitzy type of projects which in themselves tend to incur even further maintenance debts. So next time your local politicians want new office complexes, heavy rail solutions, or such, push them to reveal how current infrastructure maintenance is being done and what the outstanding costs are.

With regards to water pipes. I don't care how my water is delivered. What I care about is that it is proven safe, durable, and the least expensive solution meeting those requirements is used. There is no reason that the Federal Government or a coalition of states and cities cannot formulate a set or rules governing the use of each type.

While there are concerns about poisons leaking into some types of pipes more attention needs to be focused on getting those poisons out of the ground or routing around them. So perhaps using plastic where its known safe to keep costs down and resorting to more expensive solutions when clean up options fail or are exorbitant in costs

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#44

Post by tomohawk »

baldfat wrote: post #35
wernercd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the government should be trusted with that infrastructure/information and they won't become a bloated, red-tape laden mess? I think the majority of people agrees there needs to be changes in things... but putting "government" in charge of the backbone of the internet? Would definitely not a change for the better. Personally... I think there should be one of two rules: Companies can't own content AND infrastru…

Government does many things well. Protecting citizens freedoms, roads, airports and ports, education for all, social safety net (medicaid and social security), supplying fuel, CDC, protecting the environment, 911, policing, science and research funding.

Roads? Most roads in US are built with a coefficient of friction that is too low. The result? Many unnecessary deaths and accidents. The thing is, the governments don't build the roads - they fund the building of them. Then, they don't enforce the applicable standards to make sure they're built well. German government does much better at this. This comes down to competence.

Police? Baltimore is losing people left and right for decades now because they can't meet basic security needs. Again, this is basic competence.

Education? Are you kidding? Why is it that "good schools" is one of the top reasons to move to an area? It's because parents have little or no impact on schools and there's no accountability. If your local school is incompetent, then you can either move, homeschool, or somehow get your kids into private school. It's a disgrace.

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#45

Post by rgbrenner »

rayiner wrote: post #36

Of course the NYT would find a way to make a disaster caused by bad public governance all about evil “deep-pocketed” companies. The American Society of Civil Engineers rates our water infrastructure a “D.” That’s due to chronic underfunding, which in turn is caused by municipal governments setting water and sewer rates far too low to maintain and improve the existing infrastructure. Water infrastructure is a case stu…

Can't both these things be true?

Do you really believe the government is going to spend $300b, and no company is going to fight over the allocation of funds?

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#46

Post by rayiner »

chrisper wrote: post #40
rayiner wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 30% of households in Switzerland have access to fiber, versus 25% in the US. Switzerland doesn’t impose unbundling on fiber. The major fiber operator, Swisscom, owns its own lines.

Looking here: https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/homepage/telecommunicati... It seems Swisscom owns some lines, but not all of it. Like some of Swisscom Internet goes on lines that is not owned by them. I guess a lot of the households in the mountains and other large terrains do not have fiber. If you look here: https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=nga&mobile=false&lang=en&bgL... Plenty of households have >=100 Mbit/s In…

85% of Americans can also get 100 Mbps. It sounds like you might be in some place like Zurich, where the local power company deployed fiber and allows ISP to provide services over it. That’s a good model, but it’s not legally required. For the most part, Swiss telecom regulation is very similar to that in the United States.

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#47

Post by tomohawk »

If a local government wants to do this responsibly this time around, they should require the contractor to put up an escrow to cover any issues for 30 years. These are long term projects, and this will force the cut and run type companies to look elsewhere for work. The contract may then share the risk by requiring the pipe suppliers to also chip in and be on the hook.

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#48

Post by orf »

rayiner wrote: post #46
chrisper wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking here: https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/homepage/telecommunicati... It seems Swisscom owns some lines, but not all of it. Like some of Swisscom Internet goes on lines that is not owned by them. I guess a lot of the households in the mountains and other large terrains do not have fiber. If you look here: https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=nga&mobile=false&lang=en&bgL... Plenty of households have >=100 Mbit/s In…

85% of Americans can also get 100 Mbps. It sounds like you might be in some place like Zurich, where the local power company deployed fiber and allows ISP to provide services over it. That’s a good model, but it’s not legally required. For the most part, Swiss telecom regulation is very similar to that in the United States.

And how much would that 100mbit cost on average in America? Paying about $35 for 100mbit fiber right now, with actual unlimited usage.

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#49

Post by orf »

rayiner wrote: post #28
stephengillie wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do arguments like this continue to be made, despite many cities already having municipal broadband? This anti-governmental prejudice is tiring. Governments are made of people - what makes you trust those people less than other people?

Because for the most part my internet works, while my subway catches on fire regularly?

Do your roads and teachers catch fire regularly as well?

Re: Fighting to Replace America’s Water Pipes

#50

Post by orf »

tomohawk wrote: post #44
baldfat wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government does many things well. Protecting citizens freedoms, roads, airports and ports, education for all, social safety net (medicaid and social security), supplying fuel, CDC, protecting the environment, 911, policing, science and research funding.

Roads? Most roads in US are built with a coefficient of friction that is too low. The result? Many unnecessary deaths and accidents. The thing is, the governments don't build the roads - they fund the building of them. Then, they don't enforce the applicable standards to make sure they're built well. German government does much better at this. This comes down to competence. Police? Baltimore is losing people left and…

I'm sure the solution to a bad school is not helicopter parents blaming the teachers for their child's issues. The rest of your examples are pretty on point though
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