Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#41

Post by thephyber » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:15 PM UTC

flukus wrote: post #25

marten-de-vries wrote: post #2

Interesting approach. I hope more browser vendors will adopt it. It comes with an additional advantage: if a website still needs to function when tracking domains are delayed a second or so, they likely will function too with said domain completely disabled (e.g. using extensions). Sounds like a win from a user perspective.

Trouble is the amount of popular websites that simply don't care how long the page takes to load, 30 seconds would be acceptable to many as long as they get their advertising dollars. Users won't know who to blame. They might blame the site but they're just as likely to blame Firefox, Microsoft, their ISP or a virus. There needs to be a display saying "hey, this site is slow because it's tracking you in 15 different…

You're not thinking about this from a game theory perspective.

Slow down pages -> more users bounce -> fewer ad impressions -> less ad revenue.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#42

Post by bo1024 » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:16 PM UTC

I love to see software that is actually acting on behalf of the users running the code rather than companies serving it.

This does point to some problematic directions though.

If web standards were simpler and it were easier to build competing browsers (and/or if we could trust plugins more), then it wouldn't be much of a concern if some browsers choose to experiment with these kinds of protections.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#43

Post by stesch » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:19 PM UTC

jancsika wrote: post #27

Is there a config setting for the delay period in double precision units? :)

Search for "network.http.tailing" on about:config.

No, I don't know what the settings do. I was just searching for "delay" and found the tailing settings.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#44

Post by rotrux » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:19 PM UTC

:[ I'm afraid this might be a "too-little-too-late" attempt to stave-off the downfall of net-neutrality.

Net-Neutrality means that the finance of the internet is driven by site-owners receiving funds from advertisers (or from subscriptions...but that seems comparatively negligible)

Getting rid of net-neutrality will mean ISPs (despite their common-carrier designation) will control this whole model^...meaning they will control the internet.

The largest argument in support of repealing net-neutrality involves taking power away from advertisers...so does this Mozilla policy.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#45

Post by duskwuff » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:20 PM UTC

flukus wrote: post #25

marten-de-vries wrote: post #2

Interesting approach. I hope more browser vendors will adopt it. It comes with an additional advantage: if a website still needs to function when tracking domains are delayed a second or so, they likely will function too with said domain completely disabled (e.g. using extensions). Sounds like a win from a user perspective.

Trouble is the amount of popular websites that simply don't care how long the page takes to load, 30 seconds would be acceptable to many as long as they get their advertising dollars. Users won't know who to blame. They might blame the site but they're just as likely to blame Firefox, Microsoft, their ISP or a virus. There needs to be a display saying "hey, this site is slow because it's tracking you in 15 different…

> Trouble is the amount of popular websites that simply don't care how long the page takes to load...

They absolutely do care, though. The longer a page takes to load, the less time users will spend on the site, and the more likely users will give up and close the window.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#46

Post by nol13 » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:21 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #21

This is the ground on which the war against Google, Facebook, et al is fought, but open-source solutions like Firefox are going to need to find a better way to monetize if they want to win. All this does is firm up the resolve of user identity resellers like FB and Google to see that Firefox gets destroyed, and it demonstrates why tech eventually all boils down to platform control. With Facebook code intruding into e…

take all the tracking away sure, but lets leave react out of this.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#47

Post by qwerty456127 » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

Isn't it anti-net-neutrality? Is it ok to build it into a major browser? I actually block all the tracking, malware, ads, social networks, fraud, gambling, porn (except a couple of porn sites I like :-)) etc domains I could find information about but this is my personal conscious choice, I have manually installed extensions for this and built the lists. Shouldn't other people do the same themselves too if they choose to or leave everything as is if they don't actually feel they need to change anything?

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#48

Post by testvox » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:25 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #29

TeMPOraL wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should expect it, though.

I have both written software for standards-based protocols, and used software written to standards-based protocols, so no, I would not expect it. Not breaking backwards compatibility for existing users is the golden rule of software support. When an unfortunate pull-requester attempts to break backwards compatibility with Linus Torvalds' software, he has some very choice language to complain about the practice. If th…

Linux breaks backwards compatibly all the time. Just not for userland programs. But if you are expecting your kernal module to be low maintenance you are in for a surprise...

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#49

Post by Rudism » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:25 PM UTC

rotrux wrote: post #44

:[ I'm afraid this might be a "too-little-too-late" attempt to stave-off the downfall of net-neutrality. Net-Neutrality means that the finance of the internet is driven by site-owners receiving funds from advertisers (or from subscriptions...but that seems comparatively negligible) Getting rid of net-neutrality will mean ISPs (despite their common-carrier designation) will control this whole model^...meaning they wil…

I'm not sure what article you read, but this change in Firefox is simply a change in the timing of requests to certain domains that are known to be for tracking/analytics in an attempt to improve the load time of websites.

If anything this move is anti-Net Neutrality since it's prioritizing non-tracking domains over tracking domains as opposed to treating all domains equally.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#50

Post by andrei_says_ » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #47

Isn't it anti-net-neutrality? Is it ok to build it into a major browser? I actually block all the tracking, malware, ads, social networks, fraud, gambling, porn (except a couple of porn sites I like :-)) etc domains I could find information about but this is my personal conscious choice, I have manually installed extensions for this and built the lists. Shouldn't other people do the same themselves too if they choose…

This is a good question. I’d say it is not net-neutrality related as it doesn’t influence the “pipes.”

On the other hand, if it silently influences internet traffic, it does in a way censor content and could influence their bottom line.

I would expect this to be an explicit switch.

Edit: clarity