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Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

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Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#41

Post by fapjacks »

r00fus wrote: post #35
kej wrote: post #16

The same FCC that got rid of the net neutrality rules has the ability to make a rule that preempts any state level neutrality rules.

It's either amusing or sad that the party that ran on "states rights" in 2000 is now exercising whatever power it can to limit states' authority. Where is libertarianism?

Like everything else, it's been trampled on and buried deep in the mud as everyone races to the "us versus them" false dichotomy. We won't get over this ridiculous pro-big-business wealth redistribution project until people can think beyond fighting for their favorite color.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#42

Post by notyourwork »

UncleEntity wrote: post #18
Posibyte wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on how this would fall under interstate commerce? As I see it, they'd be regulating how they treat in-state customers and their connections, not anything coming across the state-lines. i.e. They aren't saying Comcast isn't allowed to do things to a line for a customer in Utah.

Sure, if the server and customer are both in Ca but if the server is elsewhere and they do their traffic shaping outside of state lines there isn't much that can be done. I never paid much attention to what they got up to before the feds stepped in but I kind of doubt it was a last mile problem, once the packet got that far why mess with it? But, knowing California, they'll do one of those "...and any packet destined…

> Sure, if the server and customer are both in Ca but if the server is elsewhere and they do their traffic shaping outside of state lines there isn't much that can be done.

Ignoring the around the world latency and assuming CA has a trans-pacific pipe to asia they could route all CA traffic out of country first. Would this disregard the "interstate" premise?

(talking hypothetical here)

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#43

Post by warent »

I was under the impression that the majority voice in this argument (i.e. mortal American citizens) was completely against this. Yet it still ended up that they dismantled net neutrality.

If it's true that the majority wanted to keep net neutrality, then how come the majority was ignored? Maybe I'm missing something but this seems like a good example that our voice in the US doesn't matter beyond local things like whether or not your town will allocate money towards a new public swimming pool.

Go vote on whether or not you get a nice new swimming pool. The monopolists are the only ones that have a voice in grown-up topics. That's what I'm gathering from this. Accurate or alarmist nonsense?

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#44

Post by s73ver_ »

danjoc wrote: post #31

The current NN repeal is working out exactly the way Pai said it would. As he cited, the problem is lack of competition. The solution is competition. All the discussion happening today is about how to start an ISP to prevent cable monopolies abusing their position. The repeal is working exactly the way Pai said it would. It is encouraging new ISP entrants. Startup ISPs are the answer. NN supporters still don't realiz…

I am trying extremely hard to not purely lash out at you, but to civilly converse, here. But you're completely wrong.

Yes, competition would absolutely be better for everyone. There is not a single NN supporter out there who would not love more competition. But we still have to live in the real world. And in the real world, there flat out is no competition. And in many places, particularly rural and inner-city areas, there likely is not enough of a customer base to support multiple ISPs. And, as I said, we do not have competition now. Repealing Net Neutrality is this environment is nothing more than an anti-consumer move. It absolutely is required now, to protect consumer interests. If we were in an environment where market forces could work, then you would have an argument that NN is not needed. But, once again, to stress the point, we do not live in that environment. Getting rid of NN before that environment comes is utter foolishness, and does nothing but serve to turn the internet into Cable TV.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#45

Post by Analemma_ »

r00fus wrote: post #35
kej wrote: post #16

The same FCC that got rid of the net neutrality rules has the ability to make a rule that preempts any state level neutrality rules.

It's either amusing or sad that the party that ran on "states rights" in 2000 is now exercising whatever power it can to limit states' authority. Where is libertarianism?

Oh it's a much older phenomenon than that. "States' rights" has always been a figleaf, going back to 1861.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#46

Post by [deleted] »

notyourwork wrote: post #42
UncleEntity wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if the server and customer are both in Ca but if the server is elsewhere and they do their traffic shaping outside of state lines there isn't much that can be done. I never paid much attention to what they got up to before the feds stepped in but I kind of doubt it was a last mile problem, once the packet got that far why mess with it? But, knowing California, they'll do one of those "...and any packet destined…

> Sure, if the server and customer are both in Ca but if the server is elsewhere and they do their traffic shaping outside of state lines there isn't much that can be done. Ignoring the around the world latency and assuming CA has a trans-pacific pipe to asia they could route all CA traffic out of country first. Would this disregard the "interstate" premise? (talking hypothetical here)

[deleted]

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#47

Post by dragonwriter »

warent wrote: post #43

I was under the impression that the majority voice in this argument (i.e. mortal American citizens) was completely against this. Yet it still ended up that they dismantled net neutrality. If it's true that the majority wanted to keep net neutrality, then how come the majority was ignored? Maybe I'm missing something but this seems like a good example that our voice in the US doesn't matter beyond local things like wh…

> If it's true that the majority wanted to keep net neutrality, then how come the majority was ignored?

Because the majority (at least, as weighted for electoral influence in both political branches of government) has prioritized other things in voting for representatives. Legislation, whether direct votes or through representatives, involves not only opinions on particular questions, but opinions on the relative priority of questions, which effects how questions are aggregated and how those aggregated questions are answered.

The majority wants net neutrality, sure, but continuously says (by voting) that they care about it much less than they care about other things, and that they are willing to sacrifice NN tomget those other things.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#48

Post by bunderbunder »

r00fus wrote: post #35
kej wrote: post #16

The same FCC that got rid of the net neutrality rules has the ability to make a rule that preempts any state level neutrality rules.

It's either amusing or sad that the party that ran on "states rights" in 2000 is now exercising whatever power it can to limit states' authority. Where is libertarianism?

It's completely unsurprising.

cf) The entire history of the term "states' rights".

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#49

Post by 24gttghh »

cabaalis wrote: post #19
dsr_ wrote: post #15

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/11/fcc-will-also-or... (tl;dr: fcc-will-also-order-states-to-scrap-plans-for-their-own-net-neutrality-laws/ )

Funny, I was listening to oral arguments on the Supreme Court last night on the way home from work. I'm not a lawyer, but my layman interpretation of what they were arguing (specifically in reference to sports betting) is that if the federal government chooses not to regulate something, they cannot also preempt state regulations. I reserve to right to have completely misunderstood the legalese that I was hearing :)

I believe the 10th Amendment covers what you are thinking of.

>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

If the Federal government chooses not to regulate it, then the states should be allowed to do so.

Edit: Here the FCC is choosing to not regulate Telecoms as "Common Carriers", so would not the states then be allowed to do so, barring other federal agencies that may be able to regulate "Common Carriers" (ala the FTC)? Honest question.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#50

Post by tnzn »

s73ver_ wrote: post #44
danjoc wrote: post #31

The current NN repeal is working out exactly the way Pai said it would. As he cited, the problem is lack of competition. The solution is competition. All the discussion happening today is about how to start an ISP to prevent cable monopolies abusing their position. The repeal is working exactly the way Pai said it would. It is encouraging new ISP entrants. Startup ISPs are the answer. NN supporters still don't realiz…

I am trying extremely hard to not purely lash out at you, but to civilly converse, here. But you're completely wrong. Yes, competition would absolutely be better for everyone. There is not a single NN supporter out there who would not love more competition. But we still have to live in the real world. And in the real world, there flat out is no competition. And in many places, particularly rural and inner-city areas,…

I'm an NN supporter and don't love "more competition" actually. Anarchists also are for net neutrality fyi.
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