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Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

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Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#41

Post by ghostcluster »

mrtesthah wrote: post #33
genzoman wrote: post #18

Before the internet, centralized places of knowledge were needed, and you'd need to attend that place to find said knowledge. Think about how access to music caused the price of albums to drop. Education had not seen a similar dip in cost even though the supply is 100 percent saturated. There's a dying class of professors who got in while tenure was still a thing that paid probably 1/10 of the cost for education kids…

Nope, liberal arts majors earn as much as professional and pre-professional majors. https://www.chronicle.com/article/How-Liberal-Arts-Majors-Fa...

Only if they get graduate degrees. Otherwise they start at the lowest end of college degree holders. And the "high" 'professional and pre-professional degree' salaries are dwarfed by every STEM degree out of the gate.

And like the OP said, there is now a glut of humanities degrees higher than the demand for positions.

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#42

Post by phil248 »

danjoc wrote: post #16

This is ruining America's future. That's 5M people who can't even qualify for a car loan now. The penalties for default are punishing. Even bankruptcy isn't a realistic option. This is ruinous for these people. They'll be in their mid-30s or early 40s before they can pay off. Starting that late to build a nest egg, they'll never recover. There's going to be an entire generation that has no secure retirement plans. It…

The age curve in the United States is actually doing pretty good thanks to the massive amounts of immigrants we attract. Japan and Germany wish they had our population growth rates.

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#43

Post by prostoalex »

djsumdog wrote: post #24
ggm wrote: post #7

Although by inclination what I want to do is rant about the iniquity of this kind of robo-debt in education, instead what I am thinking right now, is this: how does this compare overall to the rate of default in debt for other purposes? how does it compare to car loan debt? mortgage debt? I ask, because debt is the same, except in as much as student debt is in principle seeking a path to be able to repay it. The asse…

"The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating." -Thomas Jefferson I know I mention this book a lot on here, but _Debt: The First 5,000 Years_ is the most amazing book I've ever read on the history of debt, money and slavery. Debt relief has to come. Every great civilization throughout history has had to forgive debts. Curr…

> Debt relief has to come. Every great civilization throughout history has had to forgive debts.

Usually great news and desirable outcome for anyone carrying such debt, but not so great news for someone hoping to borrow for college at that exact time when the turbulent debt markets are trying to price in and overcompensate for high default rates. It’s like being a prospective home buyer in late 2008 - no one is returning your calls and if they do, you get the privilege to pay a premium for the other people’s mistakes.

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#44

Post by Aron »

djsumdog wrote: post #24
ggm wrote: post #7

Although by inclination what I want to do is rant about the iniquity of this kind of robo-debt in education, instead what I am thinking right now, is this: how does this compare overall to the rate of default in debt for other purposes? how does it compare to car loan debt? mortgage debt? I ask, because debt is the same, except in as much as student debt is in principle seeking a path to be able to repay it. The asse…

"The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating." -Thomas Jefferson I know I mention this book a lot on here, but _Debt: The First 5,000 Years_ is the most amazing book I've ever read on the history of debt, money and slavery. Debt relief has to come. Every great civilization throughout history has had to forgive debts. Curr…

"A debt is just the perversion of a promise...."

That entire quote reads as completely incoherent to me. I feel like I would have to learn entirely new brands of logic and language to decipher it.

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#45

Post by akkat »

wildmusings wrote: post #36

Tuition, especially at private colleges, is totally out of control. But class sizes are up, not down. And the number of full professors is not growing. So where is the money going? To an explosive growth of administrative staff. My alma mater has almost one employee per student . There are many dozens of administrative departments, each with multiple deans and assistant deans and staff, and sometimes subdivisions eac…

What's the reason for that. I know administrative staff like that that are getting paid, but what would the current one decide to hire more staff? Unless there was some benefit the staff would prefer to keep the money for themselves rather than hire more people.

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#46

Post by traviscj »

sitepodmatt wrote: post #30
fancyfacebook wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax isn't a self serving sociopathic "gamble" it's what allows you to go to school and drive on roads and use the internet. Don't dodge it as part of some insane game you were taught.

Driving on the road usually requires a car, thats usually an expensive piece of equipment, followed by expensive running costs - fuel (and it's non-gamblable tax), replacing parts, servicing and so on. Use of the internet requires a computer of sorts and a locked in contract to Comcast or another private ISPs (BT in the UK, NBN in AUS etc...). Perhaps I've missed something, am I eligible for a fully-maintained cost-f…

> Perhaps I've missed something

The road that the taxes (probably) paid for?

Also, GP said "allows", not "subsidizes every aspect of the most luxurious way for".

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#47

Post by thisisit »

It is confusing for me how bankruptcies work.

What happens if a corporate declares bankruptcy? Do they only pay less while keeping everything they invested/bought using the loan money, for example - buildings, equipment, stores etc? How does this compare to student loans?

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#48

Post by superquest »

phil248 wrote: post #40
genzoman wrote: post #18

Before the internet, centralized places of knowledge were needed, and you'd need to attend that place to find said knowledge. Think about how access to music caused the price of albums to drop. Education had not seen a similar dip in cost even though the supply is 100 percent saturated. There's a dying class of professors who got in while tenure was still a thing that paid probably 1/10 of the cost for education kids…

I thought college was an outstanding and irreplaceable experience. I still have student debt (pushing 40) and if that debt were tripled today I'd still think it was the deal of a lifetime. Other than some international trips, going to a university was probably the best money I've ever spent.

And this is why it's such a difficult issue.

College can be a transformative experience, and it is for many such as yourself.

But many more are mired in debt and don't experience any increase in their abilities to think critically. For them, it turns out to be one the worst experiences of their life.

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#49

Post by logicchains »

fancyfacebook wrote: post #22
ggm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

good point. some debts follow you around for life. And after: my dad always said tax was a gamble, and he decided to ignore the final-demand letters which we found in his office after he died. In one sense, he "won" the bet. In another, viewing him as the tuple {himself, his estate} he didn't...

Tax isn't a self serving sociopathic "gamble" it's what allows you to go to school and drive on roads and use the internet. Don't dodge it as part of some insane game you were taught.

Just because something was funded by taxes doesn't mean it wouldn't exist without taxes. When the Soviet Union liberalised, people there were shocked at buying privately produced bread. The limits of one's imagination do not constitute the limits of reality.

Re: Nearly 5M Americans in Default on Student Loans

#50

Post by jacquesm »

thisisit wrote: post #47

It is confusing for me how bankruptcies work. What happens if a corporate declares bankruptcy? Do they only pay less while keeping everything they invested/bought using the loan money, for example - buildings, equipment, stores etc? How does this compare to student loans?

Assuming the bankruptcy isn't called off:

The bankruptcy is handled by a liquidator or trustee in bankruptcy. That person / entity will attempt to liquidate the assets and will then pay a portion or all of the debts in order of preference. If there is a remainder (unlikely, but it could be) it will be returned to the shareholders. Depending on the country some creditors will receive automatic preference (such as the taxman). In some cases, for instance if it is believed the company is viable but has been managed badly it is possible that such a trustee will even attempt to keep the company running while they search for a buyer.

If debts are re-negotiated or forgiven it is possible for a company to emerge relatively unscathed from bankruptcy proceedings, this all depends on what deals can be made with the creditors.

It compares poorly to student loans because those are individual debts and unfortunately individual debts are far harder to discharge than corporate debts.

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