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No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

code.likeagirl.io

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Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#41

Post by waisbrot »

jorjordandan wrote: post #21

My daughter is six. I never wanted her to be interested in things that were traditionally gendered - but she just is. I would buy neutral toys, but her eyes would light up when she saw the babies and pink princesses. So, is she wrong to like those things? We have done the minecraft hour of code together, (she likes minecraft too) but if there was an even more 'girly' version I an guarantee that she would be more enga…

She's not wrong, but to say "she just is [interested in things that are traditionally gendered]" seems a little incurious. Princesses, pink ponies, and frilly dresses did not exist when modern humans came into being. So liking or disliking those things is almost entirely a matter of socialization and not some kind of biotruth.

While you may have tried to socialize her away from "girly" stuff, peers are often a stronger influence than parents.

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#42

Post by Y_Y »

Danihan wrote: post #8

"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS." - 2 seconds later - "STOP USING STEREOTYPES TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS, IT'S OFFENSIVE." I mean, I understand the sentiment, but I can also see why many industry professionals begin to think this sort of thing is a catch-22 where smug criticisms will be levied, regardless of conscientiousness.

But the problem is that pandering is silly and not effective (whether or not it's offensive to anyone is neither here nor there).

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#43

Post by [deleted] »

ucaetano wrote: post #15
Danihan wrote: post #8

"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS." - 2 seconds later - "STOP USING STEREOTYPES TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS, IT'S OFFENSIVE." I mean, I understand the sentiment, but I can also see why many industry professionals begin to think this sort of thing is a catch-22 where smug criticisms will be levied, regardless of conscientiousness.

"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS by not stereotyping, patronizing, abusing them and creating a hostile environment " There, I fixed it for you. You can appeal to minority groups without using stereotypes.

[deleted]

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#44

Post by 20years »

amiga-workbench wrote: post #3

I have noticed that some women only tech events tend to go very lightly into technical matters and lean more towards the social justice side of things and I can very easily see just how unappealing such events would be.

Yep! I avoid these like the plague. I feel a lot of these types of events create more exclusion than inclusion.

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#45

Post by stinkytaco »

kradeelav wrote: post #14

I honestly feel like framing the debate around surface elements like color (of all things) is worse than useless, and would rather people focus on what tech-y groups have historically attracted young girls with no problem - neopets(1), for example. (The linked article below focuses on a few things that really resonates with me - emotional security paired with the freedom to play and hack, not having to ~present~ a ge…

Some of the problem with this discussion is the fact that we talk about technology as an end in itself. We expect that people will get interested because they like tech for techs sake, not because they view tech as a means to some other end. It's possible to become interested in tech because you'd like to build things or make movies or program games. My daughter is really ambivalent to "engineering", but she'd very much like to make movies and has become fairly tech savvy as part of that process.

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#46

Post by randomdata »

lucozade wrote: post #18
shak77 wrote: post #7

I agree with this, girls that like coding aren't usually very interested in girly stuff. I don't think you can lure feminine girls into coding just by pinkifying it. All of this is just demeaning the profession.

> girls that like coding aren't usually very interested in girly stuff You might have a causality problem here. For example, my daughter, who is definitely at the girly girl end of the spectrum sees no problem with being a lawyer or a medical doctor. That probably wouldn't have been the case a generation or so ago (at least here in the UK). > All of this is just demeaning the profession As the father of said girl, an…

What did the medicine and legal industries do to "pinkify" themselves in the last generation?

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#47

Post by [deleted] »

kradeelav wrote: post #14

I honestly feel like framing the debate around surface elements like color (of all things) is worse than useless, and would rather people focus on what tech-y groups have historically attracted young girls with no problem - neopets(1), for example. (The linked article below focuses on a few things that really resonates with me - emotional security paired with the freedom to play and hack, not having to ~present~ a ge…

[deleted]

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#48

Post by shak77 »

randomdata wrote: post #46
lucozade wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> girls that like coding aren't usually very interested in girly stuff You might have a causality problem here. For example, my daughter, who is definitely at the girly girl end of the spectrum sees no problem with being a lawyer or a medical doctor. That probably wouldn't have been the case a generation or so ago (at least here in the UK). > All of this is just demeaning the profession As the father of said girl, an…

What did the medicine and legal industries do to "pinkify" themselves in the last generation?

Absolutely nothing... That's the point.

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#49

Post by lerie82 »

shak77 wrote: post #7

I agree with this, girls that like coding aren't usually very interested in girly stuff. I don't think you can lure feminine girls into coding just by pinkifying it. All of this is just demeaning the profession.

I didn't make this comment because I knew someone else would. I completely agree.

Re: No need to pinkify – Girls get interested in tech because it is interesting

#50

Post by jandrese »

ucaetano wrote: post #15
Danihan wrote: post #8

"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS." - 2 seconds later - "STOP USING STEREOTYPES TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS, IT'S OFFENSIVE." I mean, I understand the sentiment, but I can also see why many industry professionals begin to think this sort of thing is a catch-22 where smug criticisms will be levied, regardless of conscientiousness.

"YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER TO APPEAL TO MINORITY GROUPS by not stereotyping, patronizing, abusing them and creating a hostile environment " There, I fixed it for you. You can appeal to minority groups without using stereotypes.

But how? I'm being serious here. You put anything culturally appropriate into the system and someone is going to call it an offensive stereotype. So you have to make it relevant to the user while not referencing anything specific about them, not an easy problem to solve.
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