CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures • Hacker News Board

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#41

Post by bob_theslob646 » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:00 AM UTC

shit-show wrote: post #11

All your resources needed for today's Bitcoin Futures Launch on CBOE: CBOE Chart Updates: http://www.cboe.com/delayedquote/advanced-charts?ticker=XBT%... CBOE XBT - Bitcoin (USD) Futures Table: http://www.cboe.com/delayedquote/futures-quotes Cryptonaire live forecast updates: https://cryptonaire.com Bloomberg Live Coverage: https://www.bloomberg.com/live/us CMC for BTC indexing including non-US pairs: https://coinmar…

This comment is the exact reason why I cringe when anyone mentions anything related to trading.

Notice, he/she did not link anything related to how the future contract works?

How can you trade something you do not understand?

I would be fired the first day if I couldn't explain to my boss how the instrument/contract was constructed.

How do you think quants model? First they understand how the contract works

If they mess the basics up, then "Houston , we have a problem."

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#42

Post by EGreg » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:01 AM UTC

Maarten88 wrote: post #26

Ok, so these bitcoin futures let people bet on the future bitcoin price without actually owning any bitcoins, without having any actual stake in the actual market. (these futures are settled in cash, so nobody ever has to deliver any actual bitcoins) That seems to be an ultimate insult and revenge of the finance industry toward the original idea behind bitcoin. I am again amazed how the finance industry gets to have…

I said long ago that banks can issue derivatives on top of bitcoin. And we are right back to where we began.

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#43

Post by lallysingh » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:13 AM UTC

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #41

shit-show wrote: post #11

All your resources needed for today's Bitcoin Futures Launch on CBOE: CBOE Chart Updates: http://www.cboe.com/delayedquote/advanced-charts?ticker=XBT%... CBOE XBT - Bitcoin (USD) Futures Table: http://www.cboe.com/delayedquote/futures-quotes Cryptonaire live forecast updates: https://cryptonaire.com Bloomberg Live Coverage: https://www.bloomberg.com/live/us CMC for BTC indexing including non-US pairs: https://coinmar…

This comment is the exact reason why I cringe when anyone mentions anything related to trading. Notice, he/she did not link anything related to how the future contract works? How can you trade something you do not understand? I would be fired the first day if I couldn't explain to my boss how the instrument/contract was constructed. How do you think quants model? First they understand how the contract works If they m…

Those links are relatively hard to find. For how futures work: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+futures+work

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#44

Post by 55555 » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:13 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #37

narrator wrote: post #4

And here I thought it was Bitcoin that had scaling issues. Someone should make a futures market for Bitcoin on the Ethereum block chain settled in ETH just for irony.

I'm honestly surprised that there aren't more crypto financial instruments that are implemented/valued in other cryptos.

The problem is they are heavily correlated in downward movement. They all crash together. So you cant effectively short BTC in ETH because even if you win, you lose.

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#45

Post by lallysingh » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:15 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #29

Maarten88 wrote: post #26

Ok, so these bitcoin futures let people bet on the future bitcoin price without actually owning any bitcoins, without having any actual stake in the actual market. (these futures are settled in cash, so nobody ever has to deliver any actual bitcoins) That seems to be an ultimate insult and revenge of the finance industry toward the original idea behind bitcoin. I am again amazed how the finance industry gets to have…

I thought the original idea of Bitcoin was to be a currency and make fiat money obsolete. The finance industry is simply acknowledging that it’s a speculative asset and mostly interesting for its volatility, something that fits well within its longstanding frameworks.

Why isn't it a currency future: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/currencyfuture.asp ?

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#46

Post by lallysingh » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:16 AM UTC

apaprocki wrote: post #23

tr4cefl0w wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trading just started and CBOE is not nearly as big and as active as CME. Also, trading volume for futures in general is pretty low. You're rarely going to see volume above 100k a Sunday night. Coffee futures have around 23k volume right now.

I’m well aware, it was meant as a data point for anyone not aware who could possibly think for a second their public website going down has anything to do with demand :)

I suspect a lot more people are interested in watching it than immediately investing in it.

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#47

Post by lallysingh » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:17 AM UTC

GhostVII wrote: post #36

adsfasdf2332 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the consensus in the bitcoin community is that it won't have any effect and Bitcoin will continue chugging along as it has. It was mainly the bears saying the futures would increase shorts on bitcoin. Can't imagine anyone in their right mind would short bitcoin right now though...

> Can't imagine anyone in their right mind would short bitcoin right now though... Why not? I can't believe anyone in their right mind would significantly invest in Bitcoin right now.

With this kind of volatility, you can do pretty well market making.

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#48

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:29 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #29

Maarten88 wrote: post #26

Ok, so these bitcoin futures let people bet on the future bitcoin price without actually owning any bitcoins, without having any actual stake in the actual market. (these futures are settled in cash, so nobody ever has to deliver any actual bitcoins) That seems to be an ultimate insult and revenge of the finance industry toward the original idea behind bitcoin. I am again amazed how the finance industry gets to have…

I thought the original idea of Bitcoin was to be a currency and make fiat money obsolete. The finance industry is simply acknowledging that it’s a speculative asset and mostly interesting for its volatility, something that fits well within its longstanding frameworks.

[deleted]

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#49

Post by Xixi » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:54 AM UTC

adsfasdf2332 wrote: post #31

empath75 wrote: post #18

I think all the bitcoin fans making this out to be a big deal is kind of funny. The volume of futures exchanges shits on any of the fly-by-night bitcoin exchanges. Professional traders don’t google CBOE to look at marketing material, lol.

I think the consensus in the bitcoin community is that it won't have any effect and Bitcoin will continue chugging along as it has. It was mainly the bears saying the futures would increase shorts on bitcoin. Can't imagine anyone in their right mind would short bitcoin right now though...

Futures were initially invented for hedging: imagine you own 1000 BTC and for any reason (liquidating, etc.) you don't want to make any P&L (profit and loss) on these => you sell futures contracts for 1000 BTC. What you gain on one side you lose on the other, so your P&L will be 0 (minus fees, you can think of these as a sort of insurance).

This is useful for instance for a fund that needs to neutralize its positions while closing them over a span of several days/weeks. If you expect a future payment in BTC and don't want to expose yourself to the risk that Bitcoin will crash: you short the equivalent amount in futures.

Because futures contracts are (usually) much more liquid that actual assets, they are very useful to short whenever you have the actual asset in your books and don't want to expose yourself to the risk of it losing value.

Not sure if I'm explaining all this very clearly...

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#50

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 3:55 AM UTC

zodiac wrote: post #28

Maarten88 wrote: post #26

Ok, so these bitcoin futures let people bet on the future bitcoin price without actually owning any bitcoins, without having any actual stake in the actual market. (these futures are settled in cash, so nobody ever has to deliver any actual bitcoins) That seems to be an ultimate insult and revenge of the finance industry toward the original idea behind bitcoin. I am again amazed how the finance industry gets to have…

> That seems to be an ultimate insult and revenge of the finance industry toward the original idea behind bitcoin. I don't think you need to pass any sort moral judgement about the existence of this. Cash-settled futures exist for almost all traded commodities (oil, gold, pork bellies at one point...)

Finance is pragmatic. Lots of dumb money is chasing Bitcoin. Philosophical leanings of early backers, who relinquished control by nature of the network’s design, are irrelevant.