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FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

arstechnica.com

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Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#41

Post by tangent128 »

artursapek wrote: post #34

Honest question, what changes can we expect as ISP consumers if this happens? A follow up, if all it is is them charging customers more for using more bandwidth, how is that any different from any other fundamental resource like water, electricity, etc? Why should I pay as much money for my SSH and Hacker News as the guy down the street streaming Netflix all day?

Metered usage is not a violation of neutrality.

Varying prices or manipulating quality of service based on the endpoint's identity is.

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#42

Post by revmoo »

artursapek wrote: post #34

Honest question, what changes can we expect as ISP consumers if this happens? A follow up, if all it is is them charging customers more for using more bandwidth, how is that any different from any other fundamental resource like water, electricity, etc? Why should I pay as much money for my SSH and Hacker News as the guy down the street streaming Netflix all day?

It's not Netflix vs SSH, it's Netflix vs Your cable company's video service.

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#43

Post by [deleted] »

artursapek wrote: post #34

Honest question, what changes can we expect as ISP consumers if this happens? A follow up, if all it is is them charging customers more for using more bandwidth, how is that any different from any other fundamental resource like water, electricity, etc? Why should I pay as much money for my SSH and Hacker News as the guy down the street streaming Netflix all day?

[deleted]

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#44

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

What are our alternatives for wireless and wired ISPs? I'm done with the incumbents.

I'm familiar with Republic Wireless and Google Fi, but I'm a long-time iPhone user who doesn't really want to switch. Are there any similar carriers who fully support iOS?

Given the control wired home ISPs have, what are the alternatives? Is there a good, reasonably affordable wireless alternative?

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#45

Post by binaryblitz »

doubt_me wrote: post #22
grokas wrote: post #2

After reading about Pai, it seems like he was hand selected to be the figure head with which the ISPs would finally take down Net Neutrality. This whole situation sucks, and no matter how much noise we make and activism we take part in, if Pai has the legal footing to ruin the internet, he will.

Its now December 2017. Everybody knew about his plan the day he was sworn in as chairman. Between the resources at Google/ Yahoo/ FB/ Ycombinator alone they have the money, lawyers, know how, and have had since November of last year to do something about this, anything. anything at all. Actually, any fortune 500 company. Not a single whisper from wall street. not a single whisper from the private sector. Obviously in…

Imagine the beginning of the new meshnet. It'll be like the internet was in the beginning. A bunch of computer nerds. I actually would kinda like that.

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#46

Post by jvagner »

nrhk wrote: post #29
doubt_me wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its now December 2017. Everybody knew about his plan the day he was sworn in as chairman. Between the resources at Google/ Yahoo/ FB/ Ycombinator alone they have the money, lawyers, know how, and have had since November of last year to do something about this, anything. anything at all. Actually, any fortune 500 company. Not a single whisper from wall street. not a single whisper from the private sector. Obviously in…

It's fine, the real innovation moves on. Telecommunication is a history of openness followed by control, radio, tv, internet and whatever comes next. At least hopefully this isn't the end.

It's disturbing the degree to which this attitude is common for things like climate change, tax reform, net neutrality, etc.

To some degree, of course we have to adapt to what will happen. But as a society, we're supposed to have standing on important issues for the population as a whole.

There will be harm, routing around it is inhuman to those immediately affected. Seeing "opportunity" in every case is capitalistically narcissistic.

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#47

Post by koolba »

slouch wrote: post #16
grokas wrote: post #2

After reading about Pai, it seems like he was hand selected to be the figure head with which the ISPs would finally take down Net Neutrality. This whole situation sucks, and no matter how much noise we make and activism we take part in, if Pai has the legal footing to ruin the internet, he will.

We've only had the rules for two years, and this only shows that the next administration can also pull and about-face. The lawsuits might not even be settled by then.

Not only that, I haven't seen any improvement to consumers in the two years that we've had FCC oversight on this.

The only places I see improvement are in markets that have managed to create competition between providers. And that tends to only come from municipal players entering the market as the large ISPs (Comcast, Charter, ATT) generally avoid entering markets that have an established player as they'd actually have to compete.

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#48

Post by syshum »

Shivetya wrote: post #32
Delmania wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't. Ignoring the public comment period and making comments like demonstrate he's not acting in the interest of the consumer. There's a good chance a federal judge will strike this down.

Well the consumer (us) cannot seem to define what we want other than "everything" or point to how the 2014 change fixed issues that were common place. Where is the list of events that were fixed with the change that had not been previously identified and corrected as overreach by an ISP? Take a look at those pushing "net neutrality" and understand why. I am not saying they are not without merit but both sides have me…

>or point to how the 2014 change fixed issues that were common place.

2014 Reclassification was a response to a legal order brought about by Verizon suing the FCC, from 2010 to 2014 NN was in place under Title I regulations, The Courts ruled the FCC exceeded its authority under Title I and if they wanted anything like the Open Internet Order the ISP had to be moved to Title II

Internet Service was also regulated under Title II from its inception until 2005 when it was reclassified by the FCC under Title I

As to violation here is a list, this is not all inclusive but is a good starting reference

https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-vio...

>> they know they can use net neutrality to force what they want to relieve costs on their business interest and never have to pass it on because all onus will be on service providers.

This assertion by the ISP that companies like Google are getting a "free ride" is moronic. It fails to identify who the consumer is of these companies, it is not Google or Netflix, it is the average homeowner or resident who pays and obscene amount of money for these companies to go out and pickup data from Internet Peering Points. Google and others also pay money to send data out to these peering points.

This idea that if Verizon and Comcast can start charging Google will be good for the consumer has no basis in reality or history. At best it will simply increase the already extreme profit margins for the companies. Companies with a Captive Consumer market do not "pass savings" along, why would they there is no other competitor around for the consumer to change to.

>>I remember the last time it was all regulated, my choice was ISDN provided I could get it or T1 provided I could get it or just suck it up and stay on dial up. With lack of regulation new players came in with higher bandwidth and made it available to me increasing competition

WOW, that is extreme revisionist history...

Had nothing at all do with advancement of Technology, no, it was all regulations that prevented everything

Jesus. are you for real

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#49

Post by murph-almighty »

slouch wrote: post #16
grokas wrote: post #2

After reading about Pai, it seems like he was hand selected to be the figure head with which the ISPs would finally take down Net Neutrality. This whole situation sucks, and no matter how much noise we make and activism we take part in, if Pai has the legal footing to ruin the internet, he will.

We've only had the rules for two years, and this only shows that the next administration can also pull and about-face. The lawsuits might not even be settled by then.

I highly doubt the next administration will do that, for a few reasons

1) Once the cat is out of the bag it's a pain in the ass to put back in. "Hey Comcast and Netflix, your fastlane agreement is now null and void". Tell that to every ISP and software company that made such an agreement.

2) It's hard to get the government to pay attention even when there are people sympathetic to your case. Getting Tom Wheeler to about-face was a huge effort.

This isn't to say it CAN'T happen. I'd just prefer for NN to not be removed in the first place.

Re: FCC won’t delay vote, says net neutrality supporters are “desperate”

#50

Post by leadingthenet »

beager wrote: post #37
doubt_me wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its now December 2017. Everybody knew about his plan the day he was sworn in as chairman. Between the resources at Google/ Yahoo/ FB/ Ycombinator alone they have the money, lawyers, know how, and have had since November of last year to do something about this, anything. anything at all. Actually, any fortune 500 company. Not a single whisper from wall street. not a single whisper from the private sector. Obviously in…

YC is unique in the list that you give insofar as they're likely to not benefit from a repeal of NN, whereas the consolidation of money and influence in the big four has made the repeal of NN very attractive to them, and they're not inclined to fight it. Wall street, private sector don't care, they can reason about the repeal of NN and migrate to where the lopsided gains will accrete as a result. The money and market…

> Direct action is required [...] Go vote.

I had so much hope for your last paragraph and then you just regurgitated the bullshit “go vote” mantra.

If that’s what direct action means to you people then no wonder you’ve had this pushed down your throat.

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