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The impossibility of intelligence explosion

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41–50 of 143 posts

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#41
post #14

> If intelligence is fundamentally linked to specific sensorimotor modalities, a specific environment, a specific upbringing, and a specific problem to solve, then you cannot hope to arbitrarily increase the intelligence of an agent merely by tuning its brain — no more than you can increase the throughput of a factory line by speeding up the conveyor belt. The latter part makes no sense at all. Of course you can incr…

> Of course you can increase the throughput of a factory by speeding up "the conveyor belt"--a standin for the complex processes going into manufacturing.

You are treating it as a "standin" for something else, when it's unequivocally not. It's one part of a larger process, which is the point he is obviously making. It doesn't make sense when deliberately misinterpreted. Most importantly, intelligence isn't a ladder that can be "sped up" in every dimension.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#42
post #40
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardware that has more memory, more processing speed, faster access to memory, and more parallelism is better than hardware without those characteristics. The exact same software running on better hardware will run faster and can tackle larger problems. We can't possibly build a human with twice the memory that thinks twice as fast. However once we have an AI which is roughly equivalent to a human, having an AI with…

Wait, so if I run a Go-playing program from 10 years ago on the AlphaGo cluster then it'll produce better results than it did 10 years ago?

Yes. Nowhere near as good as AlphaGo, but yes it would do better.

When Deep Blue beat Kasparov at chess, the program was not significantly better than what had been state of the art for the previous decade. They just threw enough hardware at it.

For chess programs there is an almost linear relationship between your search depth and effective ELO rating, and search depth went up by a constant with each generation of Moore's law.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#43
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really that far more efficient than what humans do today? A major managerial problem with humans is sorting out our irrational emotional biases and keeping everyone working on something resembling the appointed task. Can you imagine the productivity gain if that problem suddenly went away?

So emotions are a problem to be solved and moved past... I don't want your world. Dystopias suck.

I don't want that world either. But achieving it is a wet dream for a business.

The challenge that Elon Musk et al are warning us about is what role will humans have after we achieve this dystopia.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#44
post #11

The author makes several points about AI/intelligence and recursive systems that I think a lot of people who think "AI will take over the world and replace" humans [1][2][3] don't understand. He argues that general intelligence by itself is not really something that exists, our brains exist within a broader system (environment, culture, bodies, etc.) which is something you can read more about in embodied cognition: h…

I like his argument in the middle section of howcome IQ predicts income or social status despite the fact that general intelligence doesn't exist.

It seems to me that the categories of 'knowledge' and 'creativity' are more fruitful. For example, his idea that intelligence is 'situational' reflects the fact that people know more about some topics than others, and also that our environment contains knowledge (e.g. a machine embodies knowledge put there by the designers that the machine operator doesn't have).

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#45
The argument hinges on the meaning of intelligence. Indeed, if you consider intelligence to be exactly the thing measured by IQ, an explosion is probably impossible.

Suppose we considered 'effectiveness' -- the ability of a system to quickly achieve its goals. Would the author argue that a recursively self-improving machine could not exponentially increase its effectiveness? Why?

Wouldn't an effectiveness explosion have similar consequences for people -- making human ability nearly irrelevant since any goal we can articulate can be achieved so much faster by machines?

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#46
Very good piece from actual researcher in the field.

I can see practical intelligence explosion when visuospatial intelligence develops and can be connected to rudimentary reasoning. Most of human intelligence seems to be bootstrapped from our ability to comprehend and visualize 3d space and objects moving there. It's also interesting how almost all problems look like boxes and arrows or connecting lines when you draw them on the whiteboard.

Eventually AI needs a sketchpad so it can write notes to others and for itself and participate in the culture by externalizing.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#47

I'm not sure that I ever read a piece written with so much certainty and arrogance on a field that is completely unexplored. Just as an example: "The basic premise of intelligence explosion — that a “seed AI” will arise, with greater-than-human problem solving ability, leading to a sudden, recursive, runaway intelligence improvement loop — is false." From the little that we know as of today I call bullshit. Even Alph…

> I don't think the author has any insight at all on what a general AI will be.

To be fair, nobody does. But you're right, the author shouldn't be making these statements with such certainty.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#48
post #18
post #14

> If intelligence is fundamentally linked to specific sensorimotor modalities, a specific environment, a specific upbringing, and a specific problem to solve, then you cannot hope to arbitrarily increase the intelligence of an agent merely by tuning its brain — no more than you can increase the throughput of a factory line by speeding up the conveyor belt. The latter part makes no sense at all. Of course you can incr…

"The whole statement is also wrong. Of course you can increase intelligence by optimizing the process of learning." One of the author's main points is that "intelligence" in the way you mentioned, learning and optimization, is simply one aspect of the human mind. So we could optimize our minds (or an AI program) to beat anyone at the game of Go and play perfectly, but that's all it is optimized to do. It can understa…

> It can understand "the given problem" but there is FAR MORE to our minds than optimizing and learning how to solve a task.

Humans are bound by the size of their brains. Machines can "duplicate themselves", in a way, it can freeze its Go-playing part and learn to do something else to perfection. Humans can't do that. If pro Go players stop playing Go and decide to master sword-making, they will forget about Go. A machine could be designed not to.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#49
This article is typical of many that claim proven limits on the feasibility (or, in this case, the capabilities) of generalized artificial intelligence, in that it structures the argument in a way designed to avoid discussion of the issue.

It starts by claiming that there is no such thing as general intelligence. What specialized intelligence, then, is human intelligence? It's specialized for "being human". The author is apparently unaware that this tautological response eliminates the distinction between general and specialized intelligence, as one could just as validly (or vacuously) say that a superhuman intelligence is specialized in being what it is and doing what it does. The author has invalidated the hook on which he had hung his argument.

A lot of column-inches are expended on repeatedly restating that animal intelligences have co-evolved with their sensorimotor systems, which is a contingent fact of history, not a fundamental necessity for intelligence (as far as we know; but then the whole article is predicated on the feasibility of AI.) He raises the 'brain in a vat' trope, but no-one is suggesting that AIs must be disconnected from the external world. Furthermore, this line of argument ignores the fact that many of the greatest achievements of human intelligence have come from contemplating abstract ideas.

When the author writes "most of our intelligence is not in our brain, it is externalized as our civilization", he is confusing the achievements of intelligent agents for intelligence itself. When he writes that "an individual brain cannot implement recursive intelligence augmentation" he is confusing a limit on human capabilities for a fundamental limit on intelligence itself...

I am far from convinced that the singularity must follow from achieving human-level artificial intelligence, as we don't know how to get to the starting line, let alone know how the problem of bootstrapping intelligence scales, but the arguments presented here do nothing to persuade me that it is impossible.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#50
This article has too many holes to count and reads more like someone in denial.

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BUT, as an aside: I think a decent argument exists for the non-certainty of intelligence explosion.

The argument goes like this: it takes an intelligence of level X to engineer an intelligence of level X+1.

First, it may well be that humans are not an intelligence of level X, and reach our limit before we engineer an intelligence superior to our own.

Furthermore, even if we do, it may also be that it takes an intelligence of level X+2 to engineer an intelligence of level X+2 (Etc. for some intelligence level X+n.), in which case we at most end up with an AI only somewhat superior to ourselves, but no God-like singularity (for example, we end up with Data from Star Trek TNG, who in season 3, episode 16 fails to engineer an offspring superior to himself -- sure, Data is far superior to his human peers in some aspects, but not crushingly so).

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