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Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

arstechnica.com

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Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#41

Post by orf »

eighthnate wrote: post #36
tclancy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I wonder if musk has pr firms working the social media scene? I would say the downvotes are more due to the fact you're commenting on an article that says a certain section of what we are still calling "The Right" has incorrectly demonized Musk in this case and you decided to piggyback on the criticism of him. In addition, your extended ad hominem in response to an article you didn't read is disappointing.

> I would say the downvotes are more due to the fact you're commenting on an article that says a certain section of what we are still calling "The Right" has incorrectly demonized Musk in this case and you decided to piggyback on the criticism of him. Okay. But why is arstechnica even defending musk. Is arstechnica musk's PR firm? Isn't that strange in and of itself? Lots of bad things get said about everyone and yet…

> Is arstechnica musk's PR firm? Isn't that strange in and of itself?

Nope. Why is it strange? I expect there is a large intersection between people who like Musk and the things he is working on and people who read Ars. In fact there is likely a large intersection between people who like Musk and his companies and people working in tech.

But hey, if global media conspiracies are your thing then sure, it's that.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#42

Post by arethuza »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #3
marksellers wrote: post #2

This new flavor of conservatism is so strange in light of how bound to free market ideals most flavors of conservatism are. In general, I really quite dislike Conservative/Liberal labels as political stances are not two-dimensional, but rather multidimensional. Parties are loose alliances of disparate groups. And somehow there's this rising contingent of neocons, who also happen to dislike SpaceX. Does anyone underst…

"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". They're basically as bad as you've heard, but hiding it sometimes. Even I find this particular turn against SpaceX somewhat weird. My internal model of the alt-right has largely been that they have one wing who are basically Nazi fanfiction, another who idolize the "throne and altar conservatism" of pre-Revolutio…

I've just finished reading "The Shadow World: Inside the Global Arms Trade", which is a pretty bleak and depressing book - I would guess the US Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex (who the Neocons are basically cheerleaders for) would hate SpaceX as they are trying to undercut existing players and reduce the amount of pork - which is basically what makes the MICC run.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#43

Post by mmcwilliams »

kharms wrote: post #7

The only motivation I can think of is that Musk's resources are limited and if he spends more time/money on SpaceX less gets spent on Tesla. Still, super weird.

What about the fact that Musk publicly exited the presidential councils he was a member of over the Paris Accord? It was a move that would have offended US conservatives, particularly those at Breitbart, on at least two fronts: supporting efforts to combat climate change and damaging the President's reputation as an ally to Silicon Valley.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#44

Post by corpMaverick »

barrystaes wrote: post #17
eighthnate wrote: post #8

As much as I despise all "news" organizations, I say good. Considering that most of the media has been fawning over musk and spacex and everything musk does, perhaps some criticism of musk is required in a free and democratic system. I just don't like how so much of media are pretty much colluding with each other to spread the same narrative. On almost all topics, it seems like most of the media is pushing a particul…

In the US are only two political parties. Yet North Korea and Russia only have one, so its not that bad. And diversity does exists.

AFAIK, China only has one. And it seems to work remarkably well. At least they seem to have very smart people at the top.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#45

Post by alexanderstears »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #3
marksellers wrote: post #2

This new flavor of conservatism is so strange in light of how bound to free market ideals most flavors of conservatism are. In general, I really quite dislike Conservative/Liberal labels as political stances are not two-dimensional, but rather multidimensional. Parties are loose alliances of disparate groups. And somehow there's this rising contingent of neocons, who also happen to dislike SpaceX. Does anyone underst…

"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". They're basically as bad as you've heard, but hiding it sometimes. Even I find this particular turn against SpaceX somewhat weird. My internal model of the alt-right has largely been that they have one wing who are basically Nazi fanfiction, another who idolize the "throne and altar conservatism" of pre-Revolutio…

>"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right".

Hardly. Most nationalists (probably the LCD of dissident right movements) hate foreign entangelements. Trump saying Iraq was a waste of money is hardly an affirmation of the neocon platform of invasion.

And it's an over-simplification to identify the 'anti corporate welfare' view with 'anti-spaceX'. They're anti-spaceX to the extent that spaceX is dependent on the government. I can't imagine these people are any more thrilled by Lockheed Martin or Boeing.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#46

Post by Freak_NL »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #14
exelius wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying I agree with them, but a common theme I hear from the alt-right is "no gods no masters" (Game of Thrones reference, ding on the pop-culture). Now, nevermind that these guys are setting up as many gatekeeping functions as they tear down; they simply justify it as "protecting real hard-working Americans" through xenophobia. It's all built on the false nationalism of a flagging superpower, and if any of t…

> "no gods no masters" (Game of Thrones reference, ding on the pop-culture) that's not a game of thrones reference as far as I can tell. It's an old anarchist and socialist slogan. It'd be an odd fit for that part of the right. "No gods or kings, only man" is a Bioshock reference that pops up sometimes in those parts.

> "No gods or kings, only man" is a Bioshock reference that pops up sometimes in those parts.

Which in turn uses Ayn Rand's philosophy (Objectivism) as the basis of the fictional (failed) society in Bioshock.

(Compare with this quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/207108-at-first-man-was-ens... )

Ayn Rand and her philosophy are quite popular in right-wing circles (and incidentally, largely denounced in academic circles).

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#47

Post by aqme28 »

eighthnate wrote: post #8

As much as I despise all "news" organizations, I say good. Considering that most of the media has been fawning over musk and spacex and everything musk does, perhaps some criticism of musk is required in a free and democratic system. I just don't like how so much of media are pretty much colluding with each other to spread the same narrative. On almost all topics, it seems like most of the media is pushing a particul…

>I wish we had a media environment where about a third is pro-musk, a third is anti-musk and a third is neutral. The same with trump/obama/clinton, politics, technology, business, globalization, economics, international relations, etc.

Why? I'm legitimately curious. Why must all issues be represented with equal coverage? Does this apply to all issues?

Should moon-conspiracy theorists get one-third positive coverage?

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#48

Post by donkeyd »

eighthnate wrote: post #8

As much as I despise all "news" organizations, I say good. Considering that most of the media has been fawning over musk and spacex and everything musk does, perhaps some criticism of musk is required in a free and democratic system. I just don't like how so much of media are pretty much colluding with each other to spread the same narrative. On almost all topics, it seems like most of the media is pushing a particul…

> If all the media seems to do is praise or criticize, then I know something is wrong.

This is an odd baseline. I'm pretty sure most media criticize animal abuse and praise people who help others. If something is (mostly) objectively good or bad for most of the world, I'm not surprised that media will agree on that. There's no need to always have a devil's advocate, especially not a third of the media.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#50

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

eighthnate wrote: post #36
tclancy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I wonder if musk has pr firms working the social media scene? I would say the downvotes are more due to the fact you're commenting on an article that says a certain section of what we are still calling "The Right" has incorrectly demonized Musk in this case and you decided to piggyback on the criticism of him. In addition, your extended ad hominem in response to an article you didn't read is disappointing.

> I would say the downvotes are more due to the fact you're commenting on an article that says a certain section of what we are still calling "The Right" has incorrectly demonized Musk in this case and you decided to piggyback on the criticism of him. Okay. But why is arstechnica even defending musk. Is arstechnica musk's PR firm? Isn't that strange in and of itself? Lots of bad things get said about everyone and yet…

You think paid shills are giving you the down votes?

Ron Paul criticized Space X for getting John McCain to put a provision into the Senate Bill that favored Space X.

1) This provision is not IN the Senate bill. 2) The provision doesn't hurt Space X, but it doesn't directly do anything for them either. 3) The provision is in a House bill, and was put there by a congressman from Alabama, not John McCain.

People don't like blatant factual errors. You can criticize Musk all you want, but it must be for things that are actually happening in reality.

Because of the factual errors in the criticism of Space X, and the fact that they appear to be coordinated, if there are any PR firms influencing this debate nefariously, its likely on the other side.

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