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I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

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Re: I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

#41

Post by emodendroket »

iak8god wrote: post #36
emodendroket wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standards for acceptable conduct in the 18th Century were quite different in this regard than they are today.

> The standards for acceptable conduct in the 18th Century were quite different in this regard than they are today. Well, they didn't have Tinder, but I'm not so sure things were as different as you may think. Here's a pretty amusing letter Franklin wrote that may provide some insight into his thinking on the topic: Benjamin Franklin, Advice to a Young Man on the Choice of a Mistress (1745) - http://www.themightypen.…

I've read it, but give more thought to points 3 and 4. Obviously people were sometimes having extramarital sex, but they were not freely admitting it and it could be truly scandalous (particularly for the woman) if someone learned of it.

Re: I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

#42

Post by redbeard0x0a »

irrational wrote: post #19

The first thing that came to mind when reading the list: 1. TEMPERANCE Hara Hachi Bu 2. SILENCE It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. 3. ORDER This would be my wife's number 1. She abhors clutter. 4. RESOLUTION Why is this called resolution instead of honesty? 5. FRUGALITY Avoid debt I guess. 6. INDUSTRY Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent persp…

> 8. JUSTICE ...

Also, you should pay for other people's work, not demand that they do things for free.

Re: I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

#44

Post by irrational »

redbeard0x0a wrote: post #42
irrational wrote: post #19

The first thing that came to mind when reading the list: 1. TEMPERANCE Hara Hachi Bu 2. SILENCE It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. 3. ORDER This would be my wife's number 1. She abhors clutter. 4. RESOLUTION Why is this called resolution instead of honesty? 5. FRUGALITY Avoid debt I guess. 6. INDUSTRY Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent persp…

> 8. JUSTICE ... Also, you should pay for other people's work, not demand that they do things for free.

Isn't that the same as "I should receive compensation for my work."? The I is just a placeholder for any person.

Re: I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

#46

Post by emodendroket »

breckinloggins wrote: post #28
emodendroket wrote: post #5

I'm sorry but it's very hard for me to take seriously Ben Franklin's exhortations to chastity and temperance. I guess he had some awareness of this given his famous dialogue with gout. http://www.bartleby.com/109/3.html

I look at it the other way around: the reason these were so important to Franklin was that he knew perfectly well how bad he was at them. Somewhere along the line we've conflated valuing virtue with already being virtuous. The hypocrisy of most "moral movements" doesn't help, of course.

Sure, we all fall short of our own ideals. But when your own lifestyle goes so far, gleefully, in the opposite direction you have to ask yourself if it's really a virtue you care about.

Re: I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

#47

Post by miranda_rights »

matchagaucho wrote: post #43

As I recall, the punchline to Ben's pursuit of 13 virtues was "Adhering to all these virtues makes one too perfect to be humble" The list is self-conflicting. Franklin's conclusion basically was "everything in moderation".

Yeah, I thought the list was supposed to be satirical/humorous but it sounds like the author of the article was really trying to follow the virtues. Am I missing something?

Re: I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

#48

Post by grasshopperpurp »

leephillips wrote: post #4

D.H. Lawrence's take on Franklin's virtues is immortal: http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/lewiss/lawrence.htm My high school English teacher, Frank McCourt, used to love reading this out loud.

I love this. I'm sorry for the off-topic post, but for anyone who hasn't read DH Lawrence's poetry, I would recommend it. It's not as clean as his contemporaries, but it's full of fiery insights, and there are only a handful of poets I pick up as often. "Snake" is one of my favorites.

https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/Classic%20Poems/Lawrence/snake...

Re: I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

#49

Post by ravenstine »

datawarrior wrote: post #38
ravenstine wrote: post #27

Just a note on Bushido: Although I'm sure such codes can be useful to people, it's essentially bullcrap got used to fuel Japan's rise of fascism. https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/ I particularly loathe the term as I've heard it used by more than one desperate "white knight" who doesn't practice a single bit of it but uses it to appear virtuous. Whenever I hear someone mention "bushido", my first instinct is to as…

Japan was never Fascist

Care to explain? 1930s/40s Japan was an authoritarian nationalist regime. I don't see how they weren't fascist, but I'm open to being proven wrong.

Re: I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years

#50

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

tome wrote: post #10
smaddox wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt Ben took them seriously. He's well known for having fabricated popular stories on slow publication weeks/months. This was likely his form of click-bate.

Click- bait ? I think click-bate is something else.

With bated click - the moving mouse/finger hovers for a while, then, having hovered, moves on.
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