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Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

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Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#41

Post by threeseed »

nrclark wrote: post #5

My work gave me one of the 2016 15" MBPs as my main computer, and the keyboard is horrible. My V key double-presses about half the time, and the rest of the keys are really hard to press down all the way. Some of the keys make a weird metal rattle when I press them. Typing on that wretched keyboard for more than an hour or so literally bruises my fingers. Since I do most of my day-to-day work at a dock with an extern…

There is a functional Escape key. It's right there in the top left corner. I use it hundreds of times a day. It's definitely not as nice as a dedicated key but you get used to it.

And if you want permanent function keys then just go to the Keyboard control panel and enable it.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#42

Post by kagamine »

DeRock wrote: post #26
dillondoyle wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest beaf with the TouchBar: volume takes two clicks! Instead of an up down and mute button, I get mute and volume which then opens a slider to the left of the click. So instead of just clicking once to lower volume I have to click, move my finger and slide. It would be so easy to allow custom button to add back on (and maybe there is that I haven't been able to find?) I also accidentally 'touch my pinky finger…

A couple things: you don’t have to click volume and then move to the slider, you can just touch the volume button and begin sliding immediately and it will adjust relative to how you slide. Also, if you go into System Preferences—>Keyboard, you can customize the keys, including adding a dedicated mute button.

When users have to fiddle with settings to do the things they could do before without fiddling, what have you achieved? Apple used to be the UX good guys, now they are the devil in disguise.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#43

Post by crispinb »

threeseed wrote: post #37
suresk wrote: post #18

The new MBPs are such a mixed bag for me.. I got one at work, while I still use a 2012 MBP, and I go back and forth on some things.... 1) New keyboard took a while to get used to, and it does seem like they are a little finicky. After a while, I've gotten used to the feel of it and actually prefer it for the most part. The arrow keys are really hard to use, though.. I do hate that it is such an expensive/involved thi…

Use BetterTouchTool for the Touch Bar. It allows you to customise it for each application and assign your own buttons based on menu items, scripts etc. For development it is amazing. I have dedicated buttons for Build, Run, Debug, Stop, Step Into and Step Over. For terminal I can adjust terminal profiles with one button. Also blame Intel more than Apple for performance issues.

> For development it is amazing. I have dedicated buttons for Build, Run, Debug, Stop, Step Into and Step Over

I have these in IntelliJ as standard key combos (some being Fn keys). All of these I can touch type. I can't see how this would be improved by having to look down at the mini-screen at the top of the keyboard.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#44

Post by micaksica »

saurik wrote: post #21

Based on the title I assumed that this person was going to be complaining about joint damage due to the low key travel. This keyboard on my 12" MacBook is so bad that between having to get the top case replaced to fix broken keys (when as stated in the article, careful blowing didn't work and trying to replace the keys caused them to break) and my fingers feeing like they have aged many years from the poor ergonomics…

Your story resonated with me because I had the same experiences with a 12” MacBook.

While I can’t really use you as an example, since you kind of need a Mac for a lot of the work you do specifically, I’ve heard the same complaints about Apple hardware from other long-time Mac users that don’t actually need to have a Mac.

I am curious how many of those of us that don’t need macOS day to day have voted with their wallet away from Apple’s pro line, and what they switched to. I still use a mid-2014 MacBook Pro at work, but at home when it was time to upgrade I took the same path you did and went for the 12” MacBook. It sucked in every way.

Now I’m the owner of a Dell XPS, the supposed most Mac-like PC, and I’m simply stuck with another set of problems: it’s developed a great amount of coil whine, thermal management is spotty to say the least, and the sound card drivers have to be reinstalled every few reboots else it will not detect when I have plugged or unplugged headphones, which has me carrying around a USB DAC. When I need macOS, I’m still running High Sierra on a quad-core Mac Mini server from 2011.

The sad thing is that I don’t think there is a good option at this point. All of the “alternatives” to the MacBook contain their own faults.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#45

Post by jorisw »

pudo wrote: post #14

This, so much. Plus, call me clumsy, but the number of times I have accidentally triggered one of the magic bar buttons is beyond count. In everyday use, it often feels like my computer just randomly mutes system audio or locks the display (I had to get rid of the Siri button, it's incredibly annoying). All of that besides the fact that you cannot really use VIM any more because the ESC button is gone...

This is the reason I bought the entry model without Touch Bar and maxed it out as a custom build.

I'm very happy with it. Except yes the arrow keys suck.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#46

Post by rothbardrand »

I have the 2016 MBP, and have been using it extensively in third world conditions this year. The keyboard has been so good that I didn't even notice it. What I do notice is having to limit myself to the 15 inch display vs the two 40" 4k displays I have at home. The machine supports four, and I would buy a third 4k display (This time UHD) if I could figure out a desk arrangement that supports all three and still keep the MBP in easy reach.

I love my MBP. The flash storage was a little more expensive than I wanted, and I'm going to wait an extra year to upgrade.

Anyway. this isn't a product story- the keyboard is fine.

This is a service story-- Apple should have fixed his right the first time.

PS- Touch Bar is great.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#47

Post by ux-app »

nrclark wrote: post #5

My work gave me one of the 2016 15" MBPs as my main computer, and the keyboard is horrible. My V key double-presses about half the time, and the rest of the keys are really hard to press down all the way. Some of the keys make a weird metal rattle when I press them. Typing on that wretched keyboard for more than an hour or so literally bruises my fingers. Since I do most of my day-to-day work at a dock with an extern…

yes I agree. I don't know how hardware teams with such a stellar track record as Apple have can make such awful decisions. The first time I used the new keyboard I thought that it was broken in some way (how is a shorter key travel a better thing?), and the touch bar is just stupid. I've seen people use them and the awkward way they have to stop what they're looking doing, orient themselves with the silly little screen and press a button is just beyond stupid.

I'll go out of my way to buy an old mac before I spend money on these stupid new machines.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#48

Post by threeseed »

nfoz wrote: post #29
isatty wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about this makes much sense - regardless of which generation macbook you're using hitting the power button accidentally will not turn it off (you can try it right now). Did your interviewee keep pressing on it for like 10 seconds?

Hmm, it might be because we run Windows on the macbooks, but you're right -- maybe it didn't fully shut down. Even sleep is pretty disruptive; it takes my machine ~30s of playing-dead before it pops back, and I'm booted from the VPN and all my connections. I run into this accidental-coffee-break every now and then. We bought a USB keyboard + mouse for the candidates.

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound ? You're blaming a Mac for Windows OS behaviour.

On Mac OS pressing the power button does nothing, it takes seconds to come back from sleep and it never drops VPN unless you are going to sleep for hours.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#49

Post by tomcam »

I too have found this keyboard it to be a disaster. I made the mistake of buying two MacBooks as soon as the first 12" model was released, one for me and one for my wife, and my wife's keyboard had so many problems we took it in to Apple. All they could do was offered to swap out the keyboard for a mere $400. My wife refused, and the problem mysteriously solved itself.

Meanwhile, mine "works", but the short key travel makes touch typing next to impossible even after two years of use. I have just purchased an inexpensive windows computer from a Lenovo and I'm trying to get accustomed to Windows 10 so I have a workable keyboard. This is a big deal because I am deep into Apples ecosystem and lock-in.

I do not want to switch but I type all day and I can't bear to buy another Macintosh because the keywords have all gone this way. I am however considering purchasing a new old stock MacBook Air.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#50

Post by kagamine »

Gaelan wrote: post #15
pudo wrote: post #14

This, so much. Plus, call me clumsy, but the number of times I have accidentally triggered one of the magic bar buttons is beyond count. In everyday use, it often feels like my computer just randomly mutes system audio or locks the display (I had to get rid of the Siri button, it's incredibly annoying). All of that besides the fact that you cannot really use VIM any more because the ESC button is gone...

As a vim user, I don't find the software escape to be bad—it's always in the same spot, even if it's not a physical key. Also, in vim, you can use ctrl-[ instead of escape (which is arguably better anyway).

Ctrl + [ won't work on any non-English keyboard as the square parenthesis are hidden behind a modifier already. This is a constant problem with software, and now hardware, manufacturers that they assume everyone in the whole wide world is using a US keyboard.

Yes, you can remap and fiddle to make it work but that isn't the point, the point is to pay the same price, sometimes more than Americans and get the same value and experience. Instead we get an inferior experience that requires hacks. Not good at all.

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