Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

chicagotribune.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 309 posts

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#41

Post by rightos »

jules wrote: post #30
rightos wrote: post #22

But do I need to be more productive? It's a tradeoff - I can go home and spend more social time, leisure time and put more personal time into my projects if I sleep less. The 2-3 hours of extra time I get by sleeping like crap allows me to do things I wouldn't otherwise get to do. Productivity couldn't improve these if there's no time left in the day to do them. It costs me at work, I'm sure of it, but it hasn't gott…

If you are X% less productive you will be able to charge X% less for your work, on average, so you would need to work longer hours for the same pay. You might also be shortening your life by not sleeping enough, perhaps by a larger amount than you're gaining by sleeping less. That is clearly the case in the limit of not sleeping at all -- you would shorten your life to a month at best, not to mention that the quality…

> If you are X% less productive you will be able to charge X% less for your work, on average, so you would need to work longer hours for the same pay.

That's making the huge assumption that you're willing to constantly seek your maximum pay and that you get paid solely for your measurable productivity output, which is in my experience very rarely the case. More often than not you get paid based on capabilities and responsibilities, not significantly more or less on your output. It's certainly not a direct X% less productive = X% less pay relationship. I believe it's been shown that seeking new employers is the best way to maximize pay, but that means interviews are often the difference between you and more pay, yet no one can judge future productivity in an interview.

> you would shorten your life to a month at best

To my knowledge, sleep dep hasn't actually killed people directly like this, they simply start sleeping.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#42

Post by Xeoncross »

_qbjt wrote: post #17

This is one of the reasons I hate the eight-hour work day. Between that and all of the other shit you have to do in a day (commute, chores, eating, exercise etc.), it seems like there's little to no opportunity to just have a life. I know it sounds like first world problems (people used to work 100 hour weeks), but I think our culture needs to change before we can really put the onus on people to improve their sleepi…

> people used to work 100 hour weeks

Many people still work +100 hour weeks - just not all for their primary paying jobs. Raising children, side projects, home repair, etc..

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#43

Post by and0 »

ams6110 wrote: post #27

I feel like my natural body clock is a 28-hour day. If I have no reason to get up I'll sleep for about 10 hours, but then I'm not ready to sleep again for about 18 hours. I'm guessing the 10 hours is just making up for sleep debt and that might taper off if I could sleep as much as I wanted every night. But the realities of life (kids in school, work, kid's activities, etc.) mean that I have to be awake by about 6:45…

I'm the same way. Back when I used to have summer breaks (highschool / college if I didn't have a part-time gig) my days would start 2 hours later every day. So I'd wake up at 8, then 10, then 12... until I was fully nocturnal. But then 4-5 days later I was back to waking up in the morning.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#44

Post by imustbeevil »

I'm much more interested in why a body needs an amount of sleep, what processes it is conducting, and how you can affect those processes.

What happens in the 7th hour that didn't happen in the 6th? If it's a fourth REM cycle, why do we need 4? What does the fourth do that the third didn't? Why do REM cycles take that long? Can you make them take more or less time? Can you determine lack of sleep from a brain scan? Can you tell the difference between a 6th hour brain and a 7th hour brain? Does anything you eat or do during a day affect how long this process takes? What about hydration / nutrition?

I'm sure these are all answerable, but I'm not sure most people know the answers, and this article certainly doesn't get us any closer to understanding.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#45

Post by thirdsun »

givinguflac wrote: post #37
ForRealsies wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend a 'Sleep' app on your phone. I set it to 7am and it'll wake me up anywhere from 6:30-7, depending on my sleep cycle. Never felt drowsy on 6:30 days.

This works well for me (I use ‘sleep cycle’) but doesn’t solve my inability to actually get tired and go to bed at night.

Have you tried avoiding screens an hour or two before going to bed? Fill that time with reading or listening to podcasts.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#46

Post by bluGill »

ksk wrote: post #32
lutorm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, studies have shown that hunter-gatherer societies spent much less than 40h/week "working" and had more leisure time than we do. It's just recent history that's an anomaly...

Why is it important that studies have shown a particular result?

Because only well designed studies can show a truth. It is obviously the case that when you drop a big rock and a little rock at the same time the big rock will hit the ground first. Because we have a study we know this to be false even though it is obvious.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#47

Post by andrei_says_ »

maxxxxx wrote: post #4

I don't you can generalize things like this. I am sure there are people who can get by on 6 hours or less naturally. But the problem starts when people who need more try force themselves to sleep less. I have done a lot experimentation with this and had to accept that the only sustainable way for me is to sleep around 8 hours every night. It would be cool if I could make do with 4 but it's just not in me.

For me, too, this has been a huge step in improving my quality of life.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#48

Post by rhcom2 »

nikkwong wrote: post #40
epc wrote: post #24

If you feel groggy in the morning or just not well–rested even after 7-8 hours sleep, get your sinuses & lungs checked. Could be sleep apnea, but in my case I felt congested all the time. What I thought was allergies was actually the linings of my sinuses inflamed to the point of closing off air passages. Unclear if the root cause in my case was acid-reflux into the sinus cavities or exposure to dust from ground zero…

I was just diagnosed with sleep apnea this week after it wreaked havoc on my personal and professional life for the last 6. I couldn't work, couldn't engage in anything. Now I'm pretty much terrified to go to sleep every night as I know I'm probably not going to get any rest and wake up zombified. I heard the surgery was a hit or miss. Would you recommend?

CPAP is usually the first line for sleep apnea. I've been using one for the past couple of months. They've improved the masks so the really only annoyance is being tethered to the machine when you roll over but it isn't too bad.

Another thing I've learned is the CPAP machines now phone home to the insurance company to give them compliance data on how and when you use the machine. Less happy about that.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#49

Post by cavanasm »

imustbeevil wrote: post #44

I'm much more interested in why a body needs an amount of sleep, what processes it is conducting, and how you can affect those processes. What happens in the 7th hour that didn't happen in the 6th? If it's a fourth REM cycle, why do we need 4? What does the fourth do that the third didn't? Why do REM cycles take that long? Can you make them take more or less time? Can you determine lack of sleep from a brain scan? Ca…

This article isn't exactly a presentation of research. Several of those answerable questions will probably be worth Nobel Prizes for the people who can answer them. This is fundamentally a puff piece with a sleep expert promoting his new general audience book on sleep health (Not discounting the tips, or his expertise, but this is obviously not a research paper). Several of the sleep hygiene tips he gives are things that aren't really settled AFAIK in the field, possibly why he even specifically mentions "practicing what he preaches" in that last question. He's preaching at least as much as talking about settled science.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#50

Post by ashark »

ams6110 wrote: post #27

I feel like my natural body clock is a 28-hour day. If I have no reason to get up I'll sleep for about 10 hours, but then I'm not ready to sleep again for about 18 hours. I'm guessing the 10 hours is just making up for sleep debt and that might taper off if I could sleep as much as I wanted every night. But the realities of life (kids in school, work, kid's activities, etc.) mean that I have to be awake by about 6:45…

I used to think that about myself. Now I'm pretty sure it's just the result of having light pollution (lights outside candle temperature and brighter than three or four candles) including glowing screens, electronic device hyperstimulation, and the Internet info treadmill, after 9:00 or so. If I give myself a good long stretch of low light and no electronic toys my "28-hour clock" not-so-mysteriously turns into an ordinary 24-hour one. Being outdoors and active as much as possible during daylight hours also helps (especially in Summer, when dark hours are in short supply).
Post reply on HN