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Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#41

Post by laser »

afro88 wrote: post #36

A negative anecdote: a friend of a friend of a friend went on a retreat and did actually lose his mind. He needs help and probably will for the rest of his life. Just putting it out there for some balance. I’ve heard my fair share of positive anecdotes too.

So some guy on the internet says that a friend of a friend of a friend of his lost his mind on Ayahuasca? Based on schizophrenia rates, I suspect pretty much everyone even has a friend of a friend that might catalyze their latent schizophrenia through psychedelics. But, the idea that psychedelics cause mental illness in those that otherwise would have been fine is not supported by scientific evidence[1][2], only anecdotes.

[1] https://www.nature.com/news/no-link-found-between-psychedeli...

[2] http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/03/28/lsd-and-schizophreni...

[3]

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#42

Post by eternauta3k »

R_haterade wrote: post #6
jack_pp wrote: post #5

I don't have any evidence of this but I stronly suspect that doing regular meditation will reduce the chance of bad trips or atleast let you deal with them much better. I'm saying this in case someone decides to experiment with DMT or other halucinogens, you should seriously consider trying meditation as a prerequisite.

Anything specific practices you recommend? I'm not interested in ayahuasca, but meditation has been on my list for a while now.

Here is a basic concentration practice guide by John Yates Culadasa, a western teacher.

http://dharmatreasure.org/wp-content/uploads/beginning-medit...

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#43

Post by pstuart »

bebop22 wrote: post #33
nicodjimenez wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DMT is a little more than just dipping your toes...

Vaporized DMT is far more intense than consuming it orally with an MAOI.

Indeed. Persian elves weaving the tapestry of the universe, with the physical world nowhere in sight.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#44

Post by virtualwhys »

jack_pp wrote: post #5

I don't have any evidence of this but I stronly suspect that doing regular meditation will reduce the chance of bad trips or atleast let you deal with them much better. I'm saying this in case someone decides to experiment with DMT or other halucinogens, you should seriously consider trying meditation as a prerequisite.

> doing regular meditation will reduce the chance of bad trips or at least let you deal with them much better.

Perhaps, but meditation as it is often practiced by lay people is one of convenience. That is, this is pleasant, I'll sit for an hour, but not more, because that would become unpleasant (to my knees and back). I don't think this kind of practice does anything to prepare you for the rigors of deep psychedelic experience, where control and choice go completely out the window whether you like it or not.

A one week meditation retreat, with 14 1-hour sittings per day, however (i.e. Vipasana, Zen, etc. style retreats), that will help for sure, though I suspect none but meditation masters can emerge unscathed from the psychedelic deep dive.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#45

Post by berberous »

afro88 wrote: post #36

A negative anecdote: a friend of a friend of a friend went on a retreat and did actually lose his mind. He needs help and probably will for the rest of his life. Just putting it out there for some balance. I’ve heard my fair share of positive anecdotes too.

Sorry to hear that. If you don't mind me asking, out of curiosity, how old was he, what was his prior experiences with drugs and alcohol, and did he have any family history of schizophrenia or similar?

Mental problems like schizophrenia often develop during the ages people start experimenting with drugs (18-25), and while these things can certainly be catalysts, I think the science is still out as to whether such a person would have just developed the disease later on even without the bad trip.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#46

Post by Fnoord »

andai wrote: post #25
virtualwhys wrote: post #13

> Could psychedelic drug ayahuasca have health benefits? Certainly, anecdotally I kicked a very strong 20 year coffee and sugar habit after doing a 3-day retreat in Latin America this past winter. Just happened naturally, oh, I don't need this daily coffee and sugar fix anymore. On the flip side, as the article mentions, the psychedlic tourism industry as a whole doesn't have formal safe guards in place for when the…

Can confirm, addictions to sugar, caffeine, alcohol and cannabis evaporated during my trip and did not return for many weeks. I had never felt so peaceful and balanced in my life. Whereas previously I was trying to escape chaos with substances, now consuming substances would only serve unbalance me. I felt like, wow, this is what a human being is supposed to feel like! When you face what is within you, and process it…

Ibogaine also reportedly has that effect. [1]

Out of the addictions you claim you had, only alcohol is severe. Cannabis is mostly psychological addiction but users often combine it with tobacco which is also physiological addicting.

Caffeine addiction is very easy to break with some sheer willpower. The withdrawal symptoms only last 1-2 days, and the side effects are a serious headache. That's nothing compared to heroin, nicotine, or alcohol addiction.

Sugar (and salt) is just a matter of habit. There is no conclusive evidence sugar is a proven addiction. You don't see burglars breaking in to steal sugar, do you?

Why would Ayahuasca work better than professional guidance (e.g. CBT) plus drugs with a proven track record such as Nalmefene, Naltrexone, Bupropion (Zyban), or Disulfiram (Antabuse)?

You wrote: "addictions [...] evaporated during my trip and did not return for many weeks". Do you mean your cravings were gone? I don't think one ever fully heals from an addiction. You're still an addict, just not one who's practicing their addiction (giving in to it). That is precisely where professional guidance can aid one.

To anyone who is addicted to alcohol I'd like to state: search professional help, please. Don't DIY medicate. If you are a severe alcoholic, you should not quit overnight. That is very dangerous. Instead, you need to slowly lower your dose. The best way to do that is, again, under professional guidance. A shaman might know a lot about Ayahuasca, but he's no MD.

Don't get me wrong, it is interesting to explore and discuss, and I'm also a proponent of scientific research in this field. However we should be wary with drug-related advice, or unrealistically high expectations.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Addiction_treatment (Yes, Wikipedia. Contains various references)

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#47

Post by nnfy »

tudorw wrote: post #12

It's modulating the expression of some important genes; "It is also a selective inhibitor of the human cytochrome P450 isozyme 2D6 (CYP 2D6)" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16149329 "the inhibitions on human liver CYP3A4 and CYP2D6 enzymes by those β-carboline alkaloids were studied kinetically. Harmine, harmol and harmane exhibited noncompetitive inhibition on the activity of CYP3A4 with K(i) values of 16.76, 5…

Do you have evidence that ayuhuasca is mutagenic? Inhibition of enzymes is temporary and generally harmless if you are careful not to consume certain drugs while inhibited.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#48

Post by darpa_escapee »

laser wrote: post #41
afro88 wrote: post #36

A negative anecdote: a friend of a friend of a friend went on a retreat and did actually lose his mind. He needs help and probably will for the rest of his life. Just putting it out there for some balance. I’ve heard my fair share of positive anecdotes too.

So some guy on the internet says that a friend of a friend of a friend of his lost his mind on Ayahuasca? Based on schizophrenia rates, I suspect pretty much everyone even has a friend of a friend that might catalyze their latent schizophrenia through psychedelics. But, the idea that psychedelics cause mental illness in those that otherwise would have been fine is not supported by scientific evidence[1][2], only anec…

The functional difference between 'causes schizophrenia' and 'triggers latent schizophrenia' to someone who is diagnosed with schizophrenia after ingesting ayahuasca is practically non-existent.

Sure, you can generalize that those with family members who have schizophrenia are at an increased risk of having it rear its head. However, not everyone with schizophrenia gets diagnosed nor do many people have detailed psychiatric evaluations of their relatives to make decisions off of.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#49

Post by Fnoord »

R_haterade wrote: post #6
jack_pp wrote: post #5

I don't have any evidence of this but I stronly suspect that doing regular meditation will reduce the chance of bad trips or atleast let you deal with them much better. I'm saying this in case someone decides to experiment with DMT or other halucinogens, you should seriously consider trying meditation as a prerequisite.

Anything specific practices you recommend? I'm not interested in ayahuasca, but meditation has been on my list for a while now.

Shell out some money for a mindfulness course instead for a more professional, guided course instead of apps. We bought some CDs from our instructor (in our native language) as well and ripped them to MP3 residing on our mobile devices. So we don't have to resort to suboptimal apps, which have privacy implications. YMMV really.
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