More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why • Hacker News Board

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#41

Post by mtgx » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:49 PM UTC

ep103 wrote: post #19

j_m_b wrote: post #11

Due to government involvement, there is a lack of a true market pressure when student loans are underwritten. Not surprising in the least that this bubble is starting to pop.

This is such a silly meme. Its not "due to government involvement." Its "due to the manner of government involvement." Loans that are guaranteed by the government, for all students, that can't be discharged by bankruptcy, is an idea clearly put together by lenders. If we wanted government subsidies for private education, there are plenty of alternatives. Here's one: government guaranteed loans for all students; but r…

> but repayment of those loans is capped as a percentage of the person's income,

Depending on what you mean by this, it could be either a good idea or nothing would change. So can you clarify?

If you simply mean that the students would only have to pay back a portion of the loan, but the government would still have to fund the rest to the university, then nothing would change from how things work right now. The universities would keep raising the prices.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#42

Post by user68858788 » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

There are some pretty hostile laws against borrowers. A relatively recent one caps the tax write-off on interest at $2,500. Anyone who went to a private or out of state college will hit that cap easily.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#43

Post by jelly » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #26

mdorazio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it might actually be somewhat socially related as well. If people see that their friends/coworkers with large student loans are simply deciding not to pay and nothing horrible is happening to them while at the same time they are living more extravagant lifestyles with the student loan money they're not paying, that's an encouragement to not pay yourself as well. Pair this with the last administration taki…

I don't know man? Social pressures are more complicated than that, and they come from many different directions. I mean, in the hip-hop world, "I Finished Paying Sally Mae Off!" is one of the top rated songs right now. And listening to that song, it's clear that the rapper had fallen behind on his loans from time to time. So if that "pay it off" attitude has made it down to the hip-hop world, it must be prevalent in…

Alternatively, perhaps fully paying off your loans has become such an unusual thing that it has joined the ranks of "things rappers brag about in their lyrics"

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#44

Post by tyrw » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

fhood wrote: post #37

jaclaz wrote: post #17

In a nutshell, as a generic reasoning, say that a few years ago the student loan was about US$ 100,000 and once you got the degree you had - on average - a higher pay of around US$ 10,000 per year (net). You could repay it in 10 years time while living at the same level of your non-graduated friends. Now say that the student loan averages US$ 150,000 and - still on average - the increase in annual wages is US$ 7,500…

Speaking of lessened "value" of degrees, University's need to be held accountable for some of the debt that they are encouraging students to take on. For example, at my public university, STEM students were charges several thousand dollars a year more than humanities students. STEM programs also did their best to discourage enrollment. Meanwhile the anthropology department is literally begging students to stay and ge…

Why should this be the case? They offer a service with hundreds of competing options (other schools), so it's hard to argue they're not offering market rate.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#45

Post by moosey » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #26

mdorazio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it might actually be somewhat socially related as well. If people see that their friends/coworkers with large student loans are simply deciding not to pay and nothing horrible is happening to them while at the same time they are living more extravagant lifestyles with the student loan money they're not paying, that's an encouragement to not pay yourself as well. Pair this with the last administration taki…

I don't know man? Social pressures are more complicated than that, and they come from many different directions. I mean, in the hip-hop world, "I Finished Paying Sally Mae Off!" is one of the top rated songs right now. And listening to that song, it's clear that the rapper had fallen behind on his loans from time to time. So if that "pay it off" attitude has made it down to the hip-hop world, it must be prevalent in…

Having read the lyrics for the song, I'm not sure that the song is encouraging at all, on the payback perspective. Talking about having two jobs and destroyed credit seems to me more like having the loans paid off is more like getting out of some kind of imprisonment (I do not want to disparage how terrible imprisonment is in the US, but I couldn't think of something better).

I would argue that this song is more an anthem for those who understand how hard it is to live under the weight of these loans, and perhaps if you are fortunate enough to pay them off, it is a time of celebration, as you might be able to quit that second job.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#46

Post by acidburnNSA » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #26

mdorazio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it might actually be somewhat socially related as well. If people see that their friends/coworkers with large student loans are simply deciding not to pay and nothing horrible is happening to them while at the same time they are living more extravagant lifestyles with the student loan money they're not paying, that's an encouragement to not pay yourself as well. Pair this with the last administration taki…

I don't know man? Social pressures are more complicated than that, and they come from many different directions. I mean, in the hip-hop world, "I Finished Paying Sally Mae Off!" is one of the top rated songs right now. And listening to that song, it's clear that the rapper had fallen behind on his loans from time to time. So if that "pay it off" attitude has made it down to the hip-hop world, it must be prevalent in…

Thought this was a joke, but it's not.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JqbXQa05Z6c

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#47

Post by ssully » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #26

mdorazio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it might actually be somewhat socially related as well. If people see that their friends/coworkers with large student loans are simply deciding not to pay and nothing horrible is happening to them while at the same time they are living more extravagant lifestyles with the student loan money they're not paying, that's an encouragement to not pay yourself as well. Pair this with the last administration taki…

I don't know man? Social pressures are more complicated than that, and they come from many different directions. I mean, in the hip-hop world, "I Finished Paying Sally Mae Off!" is one of the top rated songs right now. And listening to that song, it's clear that the rapper had fallen behind on his loans from time to time. So if that "pay it off" attitude has made it down to the hip-hop world, it must be prevalent in…

I hate to be pedantic, but think calling "I finished paying Sallie Mae Back" a top rated songs in Hip Hop right now(or ever) is a big stretch. It's over a year old, and its mainly just a good goof of a song that people shared around on Facebook last year. I don't think I ever knew anyone who listened to it outside of that context.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#48

Post by toast0 » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:52 PM UTC

ep103 wrote: post #19

j_m_b wrote: post #11

Due to government involvement, there is a lack of a true market pressure when student loans are underwritten. Not surprising in the least that this bubble is starting to pop.

This is such a silly meme. Its not "due to government involvement." Its "due to the manner of government involvement." Loans that are guaranteed by the government, for all students, that can't be discharged by bankruptcy, is an idea clearly put together by lenders. If we wanted government subsidies for private education, there are plenty of alternatives. Here's one: government guaranteed loans for all students; but r…

If we want government subsidies for private education, why don't they subsidize private education, not private education loans. (Incidentally, public schools have a lot of loans too)

This is the same probably I have with the affordable healthcare act: it started off about healthcare, but became about healthcare insurance.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#49

Post by krapp » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:52 PM UTC

Overtonwindow wrote: post #8

Is it possible that some graduates are realizing that for all that money, their education was not what they were promised, and a bit of resentment has led them to make the decision not to pay?

It is possible, but it seems unlikely that resentment is the primary reason graduates fail to pay down their student loans.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#50

Post by T2_t2 » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 2:52 PM UTC

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #23

ep103 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a silly meme. Its not "due to government involvement." Its "due to the manner of government involvement." Loans that are guaranteed by the government, for all students, that can't be discharged by bankruptcy, is an idea clearly put together by lenders. If we wanted government subsidies for private education, there are plenty of alternatives. Here's one: government guaranteed loans for all students; but r…

Or we could make public college free, just like we did with high school.

So... generic and not leading to a job?

The problem is the proliferation of degrees, and thinking that hasn't caught up with the new reality (e.g. "getting a degree is good" -> "getting the RIGHT degree is good").

Not sure it gets better in a global world, where the vast majority of high IQ people live outside the west, and intelligent jobs not based on local legislation (like lawyers) can move easily internationally.