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A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

economist.com

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Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#41

Post by bryanlarsen »

adwhit wrote: post #19

Given that 400+ years of growth has got us into a position where the likelihood is that the planet will be unable to sustain human life within a few hundred years, I'd be curious to find out what future historians will make of the West's supposedly proud story of progress. In the end, would we all have been better sticking with the Native American way of life? Benjamin Franklin: “When white persons of either sex have…

Humans live in Siberia and the Sahara, it'll be pretty much impossible to kill us off completely - we're definitely the hardiest large mammal.

It's a good question whether civilisation will be here in 400 years, but humanity will be.

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#42

Post by wavefunction »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #41
adwhit wrote: post #19

Given that 400+ years of growth has got us into a position where the likelihood is that the planet will be unable to sustain human life within a few hundred years, I'd be curious to find out what future historians will make of the West's supposedly proud story of progress. In the end, would we all have been better sticking with the Native American way of life? Benjamin Franklin: “When white persons of either sex have…

Humans live in Siberia and the Sahara, it'll be pretty much impossible to kill us off completely - we're definitely the hardiest large mammal. It's a good question whether civilisation will be here in 400 years, but humanity will be.

>hardiest large mammal

Pigs.

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#43

Post by seanmcdirmid »

zizek23 wrote: post #34

Let's call it as it is, an entire continent was usurped, a gigantic fertile landmass rich in resources was stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe. The consequence is predictable. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder without a hint of self consciousness or remorse, and cements a barbaric ideology that fuels more indiscriminate global plunder…

Aren't you just describing world history, where tribes/peoples have replaced other ones many many times over?

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#44

Post by maxxxxx »

It will be interesting to see how the next 400 years will go. For a long time the US could just keep growing into new territories and absorb a lot of ambitious immigrants that way. It seems this phase is over. The US is now a grown up country where everything is owned already so it will be much harder to grow. The Trump success seems a symptom of this. Instead of just growing as the US had always done Trump's message was about distributing the pie.

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#45

Post by megous »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43
zizek23 wrote: post #34

Let's call it as it is, an entire continent was usurped, a gigantic fertile landmass rich in resources was stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe. The consequence is predictable. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder without a hint of self consciousness or remorse, and cements a barbaric ideology that fuels more indiscriminate global plunder…

Aren't you just describing world history, where tribes/peoples have replaced other ones many many times over?

Sure, but it's not a reason to ignore it or brush it over.

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#46

Post by vacri »

meri_dian wrote: post #21
vacri wrote: post #10

No mention of an incredibly wealthy continent, both in mineral and agricultural terms (and a temperate climate), that was largely seized by killing the people who owned it and taking their stuff. No mention of the Louisiana Purchase. without which 'Manifest Destiny' would never have occurred, nor the Mexican-American war which added Texas and California, two of the engine-rooms of American wealth today. No mention of…

The fact that the US is separated from a huge chunk of the world by the oceans is tremendously important. But pretty much all nations and cultures have spread by one group dominating other groups and taking their land. That's a given. What happens after the land is taken and the nation established is more important, which is what this book seems to address. The US has huge material advantages over other nations, but…

> is just as important to it's success.

Yes, but this is why I said the things I mentioned were 'pretty major additions', not 'the only reasons'. The Louisiana Purchase is routinely ignored in things like this, for example - with no Purchase, there's no Mexican-American war, no Texas or California, no Great Plains, no Mississippi trade, and France as a (friendly) neighbour.

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#47

Post by tmax6 »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #37
zizek23 wrote: post #34

Let's call it as it is, an entire continent was usurped, a gigantic fertile landmass rich in resources was stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe. The consequence is predictable. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder without a hint of self consciousness or remorse, and cements a barbaric ideology that fuels more indiscriminate global plunder…

You sound bitter. Find a society without historical sin and then we can talk. You went off on some tangent about jingoism without explaining where the book supports that. Did you read the book or the review or did you just want to rant?

It sounds like he/she just read “A People's History of the United States.”

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#48

Post by bamboozled »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #41
adwhit wrote: post #19

Given that 400+ years of growth has got us into a position where the likelihood is that the planet will be unable to sustain human life within a few hundred years, I'd be curious to find out what future historians will make of the West's supposedly proud story of progress. In the end, would we all have been better sticking with the Native American way of life? Benjamin Franklin: “When white persons of either sex have…

Humans live in Siberia and the Sahara, it'll be pretty much impossible to kill us off completely - we're definitely the hardiest large mammal. It's a good question whether civilisation will be here in 400 years, but humanity will be.

That's true now, but it's not going to be the same place over the next few hundred years

We might be tough, but we also will need to develop radically new survival skills in a short amount of time. Remember there will be less food, clean water ad more natural disasters to work with etc. So surviving in the "new" world will be more difficult.

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#49

Post by kryptiskt »

zizek23 wrote: post #34

Let's call it as it is, an entire continent was usurped, a gigantic fertile landmass rich in resources was stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe. The consequence is predictable. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder without a hint of self consciousness or remorse, and cements a barbaric ideology that fuels more indiscriminate global plunder…

So why didn't it happen in South America?

Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy

#50

Post by pizza »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43
zizek23 wrote: post #34

Let's call it as it is, an entire continent was usurped, a gigantic fertile landmass rich in resources was stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe. The consequence is predictable. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder without a hint of self consciousness or remorse, and cements a barbaric ideology that fuels more indiscriminate global plunder…

Aren't you just describing world history, where tribes/peoples have replaced other ones many many times over?

Yes, but as an example (whose effect is only stark because of our present world history), the Nuremberg trials were also a replacement of world history. Many people on trial said "I was just following orders"; mere world history.

Just because world history is symbolic, does not mean millions of people's duties do not depend upon which symbols are present.

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