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World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

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Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#41

Post by rick888 »

henrikschroder wrote: post #11
rick888 wrote: post #2

I wonder what the response would be like if there was a party dedicated to breaking the GPL. Piracy seems to be fine, but anybody that violates an open source license like the GPL gets demonized like they are a criminal.

Noone would care? The whole point of the GPL is to stop companies from profiting off of other's programs without also giving something back to the community. Noone in the "pirate movement" supports for-profit piracy or copyright infringement.

"The whole point of the GPL is to stop companies from profiting off of other's programs without also giving something back to the community. Noone in the "pirate movement" supports for-profit piracy or copyright infringement."

Really? so the touchy-feely reasons that most people in the free software movement is a lie? It's all to stop profits? This sure doesn't sound like "freedom" to me. Freedom means you can do whatever the hell you want with my code. This is why I don't support the GPL.

You also bring up another good point. The people of the community want others to respect their own license and ideals yet when they infringe on the rights of others (through copyright infringement), they thinks it's fine.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#42

Post by patrickk »

rick888 wrote: post #31
BrandonM wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many people here on HN have used pirated software to help build a web app? I would expect this number to be close to 0. What does this even mean?

"I would expect this number to be close to 0. What does this even mean?" What do you even need to pirate to make a web app? Rails, php, apache, mysql are all free

Since you asked (and even though I'll probably be downvoted for this but)...I virtualised OS X on vanilla PC hardware to save money (I'm a recent college grad), as OS X seems to be the OS of choice for Rails development. I'd rather do this and have more money saved up for living expenses when I do launch a product. Is this right? That's a matter of opinion. It's definitely a grey area. If I fail, Apple didn't lose a sale since I can't really afford a shiny new MacBook. If I succeed, everyone in the company will use Macs and therefore Apple, and I, win.

And YES I could just use Linux, before you ask, but I'm getting quite used to TextMate.

That's not to justify anything....but since you asked...

EDIT (can't reply to comment below directly): Yes, that's true. However you would still be in violation of Apple's EULA which states that you cannot run their OS on anything other than Apple hardware. So you are still being naughty by doing this ;-)

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#43

Post by starkfist »

jrockway wrote: post #39
starkfist wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you care about DRM on the TV show if you only watch the TV show once?

Because DRM'd files do not play on my phone, under Linux, etc. Plus, I want to decide how many times I watch something, I don't need some shitty computer program to do it for me.

ah, yeah well that makes sense.

Personally I only watch 2 tv programs and just buy them at iTunes because it's easier than dealing with all the bittorrent crap.

I used to do the pirate stuff but then I got old and stopped caring about music, entertainment, etc.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#44

Post by nuxi »

patrickk wrote: post #42
rick888 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would expect this number to be close to 0. What does this even mean?" What do you even need to pirate to make a web app? Rails, php, apache, mysql are all free

Since you asked (and even though I'll probably be downvoted for this but)...I virtualised OS X on vanilla PC hardware to save money (I'm a recent college grad), as OS X seems to be the OS of choice for Rails development. I'd rather do this and have more money saved up for living expenses when I do launch a product. Is this right? That's a matter of opinion. It's definitely a grey area. If I fail, Apple didn't lose a…

...or you could buy OS X 10.6 for $29 if you really need it.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#45

Post by rick888 »

Mark_B wrote: post #5
rick888 wrote: post #2

I wonder what the response would be like if there was a party dedicated to breaking the GPL. Piracy seems to be fine, but anybody that violates an open source license like the GPL gets demonized like they are a criminal.

I think it's a lot like Robin Hood. Piracy is viewed in some ways as "rob from the rich and give to the poor" which people in general can get on board with. However, breaking the GPL would be more like the opposite. Instead, someone is seeking personal gain/fame (aka the "rich") vs the people who volunteered their time ("poor") and that's just not right.

"Instead, someone is seeking personal gain/fame (aka the "rich") vs the people who volunteered their time ("poor") and that's just not right."

It's strange that you say this, because no matter how many times someone creates a proprietary app based on the GPL license, nothing is lost. The original work is out there for all to enjoy (with credits to all the authors).

The only thing you don't get are the changes (which weren't yours in the first place). Forcing changes to be under the GPL isn't for freedom, but political ideology.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#46

Post by rick888 »

patrickk wrote: post #36
rick888 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How many people here on HN have used pirated software to help build a web app? Quite a few I'd bet. If your fledging web app is a success, whose software are you gonna buy when you are successful? The one you 'test-drove' as a pirate of course. " Possibly. But there aren't really any real stats to back this up. "Why do you think the tech industry and the web grew out of America and not some other wealthy country? It…

The problem with clamping down on piracy is where do you draw the line? On one end of the continuum is the 'totally-open' model that has been there since the advent of the web, and the other end of the continuum is China, which employs an army of workers ( http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2010/03/... ) to censor content that the government deems 'inappropriate'. Starting to apply measures to clamp…

"The problem with clamping down on piracy is where do you draw the line?"

Why should the GNU get any more attention or rights than anything else? If people can't respect my copyrighted work, I sure as hell won't respect GNU licensed software.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#47

Post by rick888 »

patrickk wrote: post #42
rick888 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would expect this number to be close to 0. What does this even mean?" What do you even need to pirate to make a web app? Rails, php, apache, mysql are all free

Since you asked (and even though I'll probably be downvoted for this but)...I virtualised OS X on vanilla PC hardware to save money (I'm a recent college grad), as OS X seems to be the OS of choice for Rails development. I'd rather do this and have more money saved up for living expenses when I do launch a product. Is this right? That's a matter of opinion. It's definitely a grey area. If I fail, Apple didn't lose a…

"And YES I could just use Linux, before you ask, but I'm getting quite used to TextMate."

So because you can't be bothered with using something that's free, you are going to disrespect apple's license. There are plenty of free text editors for Windows and Linux that supports most of not all of textmate's features.

Many companies decide to use GNU code in their apps. They don't get the same luxury as you. Many are sued in court and others are forced to release their own code.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#48

Post by henrikschroder »

rick888 wrote: post #41
henrikschroder wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noone would care? The whole point of the GPL is to stop companies from profiting off of other's programs without also giving something back to the community. Noone in the "pirate movement" supports for-profit piracy or copyright infringement.

"The whole point of the GPL is to stop companies from profiting off of other's programs without also giving something back to the community. Noone in the "pirate movement" supports for-profit piracy or copyright infringement." Really? so the touchy-feely reasons that most people in the free software movement is a lie? It's all to stop profits? This sure doesn't sound like "freedom" to me. Freedom means you can do wha…

Really? so the touchy-feely reasons that most people in the free software movement is a lie?

I think you forgot a verb there?

It's all to stop profits? This sure doesn't sound like "freedom" to me.

I'm not really sure what you're ranting against, but the whole point of the GPL is to force "give some, get some", and to stop people from profiting off of other people's work.

Freedom means you can do whatever the hell you want with my code. This is why I don't support the GPL.

Good for you?

The people of the community want others to respect their own license and ideals yet when they infringe on the rights of others (through copyright infringement), they thinks it's fine.

Which community are you talking about now? The "pirate" community or the "free software" community?

Also, the FSF is of the position that copyrights suck, but that doesn't stop them from making the GPL using existing copyright law. The GPL is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Copyright law is as it is, and therefore we have the GPL as it is. If copyright law was different, for example if software couldn't be copyrighted, we wouldn't have the GPL at all.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#49

Post by DavidPP »

nuxi wrote: post #44
patrickk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you asked (and even though I'll probably be downvoted for this but)...I virtualised OS X on vanilla PC hardware to save money (I'm a recent college grad), as OS X seems to be the OS of choice for Rails development. I'd rather do this and have more money saved up for living expenses when I do launch a product. Is this right? That's a matter of opinion. It's definitely a grey area. If I fail, Apple didn't lose a…

...or you could buy OS X 10.6 for $29 if you really need it.

29$ is an upgrade license only.

Re: World’s First Pirate ISP Launches In Sweden

#50

Post by patrickk »

rick888 wrote: post #47
patrickk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you asked (and even though I'll probably be downvoted for this but)...I virtualised OS X on vanilla PC hardware to save money (I'm a recent college grad), as OS X seems to be the OS of choice for Rails development. I'd rather do this and have more money saved up for living expenses when I do launch a product. Is this right? That's a matter of opinion. It's definitely a grey area. If I fail, Apple didn't lose a…

"And YES I could just use Linux, before you ask, but I'm getting quite used to TextMate." So because you can't be bothered with using something that's free, you are going to disrespect apple's license. There are plenty of free text editors for Windows and Linux that supports most of not all of textmate's features. Many companies decide to use GNU code in their apps. They don't get the same luxury as you. Many are sue…

"So because you can't be bothered with using something that's free...."

You are making presumptions again here. I've tried Linux, I prefer OS X is all. As I've said already, OS X seems to be the best environment for Rails development. If I sell my startup for millions, Apple wins big through additional sales.

I'm going to bow gracefully out of this thread now, as I've said my piece. I'll leave you with a few words of wisdom from a guy a little bit richer and more successful than either of us:

"Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade." - Bill Gates

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr/09/business/fi-micropir...

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