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Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#41

Post by llamaz »

VeronicaJJ123 wrote: post #21
Overtonwindow wrote: post #18

I think this sentence is quite telling: "The separation of students, teachers, and administrators into single-sex public schools may serve cultural and religious purposes, but it seems to create an unintentional ghetto for boys...." I think single-sex education is the answer here because for girls, it allows them to flourish and grow without the male-dominated Middle Eastern oppression. Girls can grow and learn in an…

Single Sex education was introduced in India by various Church run schools and from my own personal experience over couple of generations the model is totally frowned upon by most people. Girls who work in that environment grow up without great interaction with boys and face a lot of trouble in future. However this is India where women can work etc. In Islamic oppressive countries however things might be different.

> However this is India where women can work etc. In Islamic oppressive countries however things might be different.

Women work in Pakistan too, FYI. India and Pakistan have been separated for roughly 60 years, their cultures are very similar.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#42

Post by novia »

tomp wrote: post #26
pjc50 wrote: post #9

The answer seems to be "toxic masculinity". (Since I had to clarify this last time: the term refers to expressions or expectations of masculinity and masculine behaviour that are toxic, not a claim that masculinity is toxic in and of itself.) > For one thing, boys’ schools are more violent places, concluded the study > Boys also reported worse relationships with their male teachers > male teachers were three times as…

> (Since I had to clarify this last time: the term refers to expressions or expectations of masculinity and masculine behaviour that are toxic, not a claim that masculinity is toxic in and of itself.) I'd suggest that the term itself is toxic (and/or sexist). If you think otherwise, can you suggest examples of (stereotypically) masculine behaviours that aren't considered toxic, but positive by the mainstream public/m…

I'm not the OP, but some examples of toxic femininity I've heard are:

- Being passive to a point of causing harm through inaction

- Gossiping/body shaming/putting others down with words

The positive masculine traits should be obvious, but I'll list a few:

- Bravery

- Competitiveness

- Independence

- Confidence

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#43

Post by adamnemecek »

lvoudour wrote: post #37
adamnemecek wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, give them a desk and a book. > Let's not forget that school also helps children socialize Yeah don't force me to socialize pls. Also how much time is really given in school for socialization?

>Right, give them a desk and a book. > Yeah don't force me to socialize pls. Most people like socializing and benefit from it (which in turn benefits society), you can't possibly ask for a system that caters to the few who don't like it. The "desk and book" may work when you're in college but it definitely doesn't work for children. Even in college you have professors/lecturers to guide you (and check your progress).…

> Most people like socializing

Debatable at best.

> and benefit from it

Again, debatable.

> may work when you're in college

Yeah it doesn't. I still need to go to classes, do hw and what not which really cuts into my reading time.

> Not everyone is like you

Right, maybe let's setup a system that can cater to people according to their needs, how about that.

> I personally know very few people who enjoy educating themselves (let alone children and teenagers)

That's because their only experience with education is sitting in a classroom for 6 hours a day talking about dumb stuff someone once upon a time deemed to be worthwhile to be a part of education.

> They just don't scale to millions whichever way you look at it

Unless you've tried it, don't say it doesn't work.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#44

Post by thriftwy »

lvoudour wrote: post #37
adamnemecek wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, give them a desk and a book. > Let's not forget that school also helps children socialize Yeah don't force me to socialize pls. Also how much time is really given in school for socialization?

>Right, give them a desk and a book. > Yeah don't force me to socialize pls. Most people like socializing and benefit from it (which in turn benefits society), you can't possibly ask for a system that caters to the few who don't like it. The "desk and book" may work when you're in college but it definitely doesn't work for children. Even in college you have professors/lecturers to guide you (and check your progress).…

> you can't possibly ask for a system that caters to the few who don't like it

But what if I do?

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#46

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #11
spodek wrote: post #4

> in school, Jordanian girls are crushing their male peers When males outperform females, everyone concludes the system is biased and we should remove the bias. When females outperform males, they say things like "This is baffling on the most obvious levels." Maybe the educational system is biased, favoring how girls learn and behave. Is it hard for people to imagine that systems can benefit girls at the expense of b…

The article points out that there are effectively two school systems - it's entirely gender-segregated - and the boy's system is disadvantaging them.

[deleted]

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#47

Post by acomar »

tomp wrote: post #26
pjc50 wrote: post #9

The answer seems to be "toxic masculinity". (Since I had to clarify this last time: the term refers to expressions or expectations of masculinity and masculine behaviour that are toxic, not a claim that masculinity is toxic in and of itself.) > For one thing, boys’ schools are more violent places, concluded the study > Boys also reported worse relationships with their male teachers > male teachers were three times as…

> (Since I had to clarify this last time: the term refers to expressions or expectations of masculinity and masculine behaviour that are toxic, not a claim that masculinity is toxic in and of itself.) I'd suggest that the term itself is toxic (and/or sexist). If you think otherwise, can you suggest examples of (stereotypically) masculine behaviours that aren't considered toxic, but positive by the mainstream public/m…

Confidence and self-assertiveness, emotional stability, perseverance and drive. There is absolutely a positive form of masculinity that gets obscured by all the crap.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#48

Post by croon »

tyingq wrote: post #16
croon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When males outperform females, everyone concludes the system is biased and we should remove the bias. > When females outperform males, they say things like "This is baffling on the most obvious levels." You point out hypocrisy, but follow it up with an equal but opposite? > Maybe the educational system is biased, favoring how girls learn and behave. Is it hard for people to imagine that systems can benefit girls at…

>Can it not be that this instead proves that systems can be and are biased, in both directions? I believe that's the point GP was making. Where does it imply otherwise?

That's how I read this:

> When males outperform females, everyone concludes the system is biased and we should remove the bias.

It's phrased (in company with the other lines) in a way that suggests such a conclusion is somehow ridiculous.

If that is not what he/she meant I apologize.

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#49

Post by xiaoma »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #29
dominotw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

girls seem out perform boys in usa, there is no sex segregation in usa , afaik. http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/girls-grades....

Have you found anything that speaks to single-sex education in western countries as better, or worse for girls, or boys?

Gender-segregated parochial schools in the US tend to have typical outcomes for boys and notably good outcomes for girls. (at least back when I was a student in the early 90s)

Re: Why Are Middle East Girls Better in School Than Boys?

#50

Post by thriftwy »

gm-conspiracy wrote: post #15
adamnemecek wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it tho? And even if it is, why is the system setup for them and not me? But I’m also not convinced that this is the way to go even for “not smart” people. But to some extent I also believe that he idea of being smart or not is given too much emphasis. Like if you go at your own pace, you’ll get there when you get there. A guide pushing you and telling you to go faster isn’t going to help you.

There are many more of "them" than you. They need their bread and circuses, otherwise, they will come pillage your property.

> There are many more of "them" than you.

> they will come pillage your property

Going by your reasoning, there are many more people without property than ones with, why bother protecting property rights at all?

That's "most people" fallacy you are showing all over the thread.

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