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Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

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Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#41

Post by arunc » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 8:47 PM UTC

I tried finding the lines of code in each language with cloc. C/C++ Header contains a sum of C and CPP header files. Python has been used across different language dirs as wrapper script or so, otherwise, it's own implementation is probably 1350 lines at max. This would also probably include bugs in cloc.

    github.com/AlDanial/cloc v 1.70 ----------------------------------- Language                      files ----------------------------------- Visual Basic                     36 Swift                            36 SQL                              36 Pascal                           19 Ada                              28 Elm                              19 awk                              16 Lisp                             37 VHDL                             17 C#                               20 Python                           37 make                             89 C                                19 Perl                             35 Go                               17 Rust                             18 JavaScript                       43 Forth                            18 C++                              18 Java                             17 D                                17 Racket                           35 TypeScript                       17 Markdown                          8 Rexx                             17 Bourne Shell                     30 Tcl/Tk                           17 Dart                             16 F#                               20 Objective C                      17 Erlang                           17 MATLAB                           26 Haxe                             19 Crystal                          18 vim script                       17 Haskell                          17 PHP                              18 Lua                              18 Scala                            16 Elixir                           19 JSON                             28 R                                17 Groovy                           17 Kotlin                           17 Julia                            17 Nim                              16 lex                              18 Ruby                             17 OCaml                            15 PowerShell                       11 ClojureC                         15 CoffeeScript                     17 CSS                               6 C/C++ Header                     22 HTML                              2 Bourne Again Shell               47 YAML                              2 Maven                             1 Clojure                           2 ClojureScript                     1 ----------------------------------- SUM:                           1242 -----------------------------------   Top

`Re: #42`

`HN`
Post T=2.86 s (433.6 files/s, 67570.0 lines/s) --------------------------------------------- blank comment code --------------------------------------------- 1569 132 8036 1199 1606 7951 956 649 7594 704 951 6253 1975 380 5856 1619 226 5647 290 15 5169 825 256 4562 434 32 4228 658 346 4175 574 394 4018 1244 873 4010 466 392 3499 413 171 3450 281 148 3397 304 130 3331 449 247 3235 516 158 3228 568 71 2986 325 135 2938 363 10 2938 480 385 2740 284 56 2740 714 0 2730 283 47 2713 390 315 2692 284 43 2416 255 41 2303 337 13 2298 285 150 2189 277 191 2185 184 128 2165 254 79 2161 417 58 2146 242 50 2076 331 99 2000 249 120 1955 248 87 1874 221 113 1816 366 35 1809 246 0 1765 201 100 1612 170 98 1582 312 0 1554 189 126 1405 320 36 1397 209 0 1355 167 87 1264 109 98 1211 128 71 1146 257 129 1053 195 126 1037 150 132 792 266 44 752 36 35 486 1 4 135 6 10 86 2 7 85 8 12 65 1 0 2 --------------------------------------------- 24806 10447 158293 ---------------------------------------------

aria-hidden="true"> 0#p15232470">Permalink .com/item?id=15232470" rel="external noopener">View on HN href="https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=15232470&goto=item%3Fid%3D15226110" rel="external noopener">Reply on HN id="p15232473"> Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages an> =viewprofile&un=josmar">josmar member st.php?mode=viewprofile&un=josmar" aria-label="View josmar's profile">J dd> Jul 10, 2017, 8:34 PM UTC dd> by josmar » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 8:48 PM UTC

Sjenk wrote: post #34

I am curious why is hackernews always so happy and obsessed with lisp, there is almost daily a lisp post on the frontpage. I dont really care/mind but I am just curious as why people love lisp so much. The only thing that I notice about Lisp are the bracket jokes and memes.

After being a user of languages for a long time, writing my own LISP was the experience of leaving Platons cave and seeing what the thing I use daily really is made of. What is "if"? What is a boolean, a variable, a function?

It's a beautiful thing. I wish I would never have to climb down into the cave (languages with more advanced parsers) again.

Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#43

Post by Sjenk » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 9:11 PM UTC

Sjenk wrote: post #34

I am curious why is hackernews always so happy and obsessed with lisp, there is almost daily a lisp post on the frontpage. I dont really care/mind but I am just curious as why people love lisp so much. The only thing that I notice about Lisp are the bracket jokes and memes.

Thanks for all the explanations. Now I understand why u guys get excited from it. Almost sounds to good to be true.

Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#44

Post by spc476 » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

josmar wrote: post #42

Sjenk wrote: post #34

I am curious why is hackernews always so happy and obsessed with lisp, there is almost daily a lisp post on the frontpage. I dont really care/mind but I am just curious as why people love lisp so much. The only thing that I notice about Lisp are the bracket jokes and memes.

After being a user of languages for a long time, writing my own LISP was the experience of leaving Platons cave and seeing what the thing I use daily really is made of. What is "if"? What is a boolean, a variable, a function? It's a beautiful thing. I wish I would never have to climb down into the cave (languages with more advanced parsers) again.

You climed in the wrong direction. What you want is assembly. That's where software ends up.

Also, it's interpreters all the way down. Even assembly is interpreted.

Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#45

Post by metaobject » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

rjsw wrote: post #20

chriswarbo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're at it, why don't we replace high school math tests with one question: "Solve the Riemann hypothesis". We can replace the physics curriculum with "Unify quantum mechanics with general relativity", and throw out computing courses in favour of "Prove whether or not P = NP". It's important to re-do things which others have already worked out, in order to reach a greater understanding :)

Whatever. I learned how to implement Lisp by reading the source code for multiple compilers. Started with Franz Lisp, then KCL and CMUCL. I don't feel that a toy interpreter is going to teach the same things.

Perhaps you could write up the process you followed, in the form of blog post or something, so that you can pass on the knowledge. I, for one, would love a guided tour through those implementations to see which parts are worth studying to understand how an established Lisp is built.

Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#46

Post by cabaalis » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 9:51 PM UTC

spc476 wrote: post #44

josmar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After being a user of languages for a long time, writing my own LISP was the experience of leaving Platons cave and seeing what the thing I use daily really is made of. What is "if"? What is a boolean, a variable, a function? It's a beautiful thing. I wish I would never have to climb down into the cave (languages with more advanced parsers) again.

You climed in the wrong direction. What you want is assembly. That's where software ends up. Also, it's interpreters all the way down. Even assembly is interpreted.

>Also, it's interpreters all the way down. Even assembly is interpreted.

Speak truth to power. Every time someone says this there seem to be nothing but haters.

Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#47

Post by omginternets » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

cabaalis wrote: post #46

spc476 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You climed in the wrong direction. What you want is assembly. That's where software ends up. Also, it's interpreters all the way down. Even assembly is interpreted.

>Also, it's interpreters all the way down. Even assembly is interpreted. Speak truth to power. Every time someone says this there seem to be nothing but haters.

>Even assembly is interpreted.

Could you please elaborate on this point? I'm still very much in the cave.

Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#48

Post by omginternets » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 10:28 PM UTC

rjsw wrote: post #20

chriswarbo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're at it, why don't we replace high school math tests with one question: "Solve the Riemann hypothesis". We can replace the physics curriculum with "Unify quantum mechanics with general relativity", and throw out computing courses in favour of "Prove whether or not P = NP". It's important to re-do things which others have already worked out, in order to reach a greater understanding :)

Whatever. I learned how to implement Lisp by reading the source code for multiple compilers. Started with Franz Lisp, then KCL and CMUCL. I don't feel that a toy interpreter is going to teach the same things.

I don't have the time to learn it that way. It's this or never doing it at all.

Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#49

Post by spc476 » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 10:32 PM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #47

cabaalis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, it's interpreters all the way down. Even assembly is interpreted. Speak truth to power. Every time someone says this there seem to be nothing but haters.

>Even assembly is interpreted. Could you please elaborate on this point? I'm still very much in the cave.

I'll use x86-32 for elaboration [1]. When the CPU sees the byte sequence 0xB8 0x90 0x41 0x5A 0x7B, it has to interpet what those bytes mean. It sees the 0xB8, so then it knows that you are loading the EAX register with an immedate value. The next four bytes (0x90, 0x41, 0x5A, 0x7B) are read and stored into EAX (as 0x7B5A4190, because Intel is little endian).

That is the case for all instructions. Each one is interpreted by the CPU. And for modern CPUs, even translated into an internal format that is futher interpreted.

[1] Sans power right now. Using my cellphone as a hot-spot and my iPad as a laptop. The aftermath of hurricanes is brutal in Florida.

Re: Mal – Make a Lisp, in 68 languages

#50

Post by prophesi » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 10:36 PM UTC

spc476 wrote: post #44

josmar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After being a user of languages for a long time, writing my own LISP was the experience of leaving Platons cave and seeing what the thing I use daily really is made of. What is "if"? What is a boolean, a variable, a function? It's a beautiful thing. I wish I would never have to climb down into the cave (languages with more advanced parsers) again.

You climed in the wrong direction. What you want is assembly. That's where software ends up. Also, it's interpreters all the way down. Even assembly is interpreted.

Not the wrong direction, just not far enough.

Learning assembly is great, and every programmer should dive into at least a simpler version of it, but it's not exactly the best way to learn how your high-level language is implementing tail-call optimization.

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