Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died • Hacker News Board

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#41

Post by exelius » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 1:59 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #19

I used to work in similar places. They suck. There's a reason people don't wear loose fitting clothing around machinery though. A lot of the author's complaints are just part for the course in these kinds of environments. Low margin industries suck in general. The problem here isn't temp agencies it's companies that would be doing bad things anyway hire their full time workforce though temp agencies to create level o…

> The problem here isn't temp agencies it's companies that would be doing bad things anyway hire their full time workforce though temp agencies to create level of abstraction that helps avoid liability.

The problem is worse than that. Companies are providing insufficient worker trainings/protection to save money and hiding behind a temp agency for any consequences of that decision. That way, when they get inevitably get sued, the temp agency can declare bankruptcy. Meanwhile, the plant reassigns the contract to a "new" company who then hires most of the same workers.

Here's how it works:

- A holding company owns the factory and everything in it (equipment, etc). Skilled labor (technicians, etc.) work for this company. This is also the company that is most likely to be a subsidiary or joint venture of a publicly traded company that you've heard of.

- An operating company leases the factory from the holding company with the goal of manufacturing something (but often something that the parent company wants). The plant managers are probably the only people who work for this company.

- The operating company hires a temp agency to staff the line.

- The temp workers are employed by the agency to work the line.

- If a worker gets hurt, the temp agency can declare bankrupcy. Temp agencies have few capital assets to go after, so even if you win, you're not likely to get much.

- Even if you can somehow get the operating company included in the suit for negligent oversight, it too has very little in the way of assets.

- The holding company (where the real assets exist) is protected by several layers of liability.

- The publicly traded company is out of the loop entirely, but still gets cheap products to sell at their stores. Risk is transferred to workers in order to save money.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#42

Post by castle-bravo » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:01 PM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #29

> Fiera’s current clients include some of the continent’s biggest brands including Dunkin’ Donuts and Sobeys; over the years it has made pastries for Costco, Tim Hortons, Metro, Walmart, and Loblaw. Its factories churn out baked goods by the truckload, destined for markets across North America and around the world. They can produce 2 million bagels alone per day. Retail boycotts have been used against clothing sweats…

Consider getting a bread maker: Keurig for bread.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#43

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:01 PM UTC

_5ysi wrote: post #40

Having worked at two manufacturers in the Midwest, anecdotally the majority of forklift drivers, line workers on specific lines, and even many white collar office roles were filled by temp agencies. A similar structure existed for engineering too; we would have a problem and the engineering firm with workers under the same roof would develop a solution. For the temp workers the motivation was always very clear and ve…

Ending right to work laws and bringing back unions.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#44

Post by jdietrich » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

Theizestooke wrote: post #14

That is some great journalism, can't remember the last time I read an article like that. Also telling that this article has less than 20 comments on Hacker News. Or maybe it's a sign of the times that this sort of stuff appears on a tech news site at all.

If you want to see more journalism like this, subscribe to your local newspaper.

Investigative journalism is slow, difficult and expensive. Sometimes it doesn't yield anything worth printing, sometimes it results in a worthy but dull story, sometimes it provokes major social change. You can't afford to do serious investigative work on Adsense revenue.

Local newspapers are uniquely equipped to do this sort of work. They have the local contacts, they have the experienced journalists who know their beat, they have the trust of the community. Agencies like ProPublica do important work, but they're no substitute for grass-roots journalism.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#45

Post by jdietrich » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:09 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #37

andrewl wrote: post #17

This kind of article is a reminder of how much we need traditional newspapers, and what we'd lose if they went away. I sometimes read suggestions that independent bloggers will replace newspapers, but I don't think they can do everything newspaper reporters do. This reporter worked undercover for a month. There would also have been a lot of time spent on background research before she went undercover. Then it would h…

Bloggers can one-up journalists though - there's been a number of critical blog posts and articles from (former) employees at Uber, Google, etc, which eventually cost CEO's their jobs. Actually working and living the life is even better than being a journalist and having to dive into it.

Your examples kind of undermine your point. Disgruntled Uber and Google employees have the writing skills to make their point, they have the technical savvy and the social capital to get their message to a wide audience, they have the confidence and financial resources to resist legal bullying.

In a world without professional journalists, there's no-one to speak out for the poor and marginalised, no-one to unearth stories that are being kept well-hidden by unscrupulous people, no-one to do the months of digging and fact-checking that are involved in a major investigation. Journalism is a highly skilled craft that plays a vital role in society; we can't afford to delegate it to amateurs.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#46

Post by m12k » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:09 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #3

I don't understand how this strategy works. Company A doesn't want to hire employees because employees have rights. Instead, they hire temps from Company B who abuses their employees' rights. Why doesn't the government start policing the abuse of rights by Company B? Why doesn't the government pass laws that acknowledge that these employees are truly employees of Company A?

Because the government has been hi-jacked by an anti-government party?

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#47

Post by ams6110 » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:10 PM UTC

castle-bravo wrote: post #42

walterbell wrote: post #29

> Fiera’s current clients include some of the continent’s biggest brands including Dunkin’ Donuts and Sobeys; over the years it has made pastries for Costco, Tim Hortons, Metro, Walmart, and Loblaw. Its factories churn out baked goods by the truckload, destined for markets across North America and around the world. They can produce 2 million bagels alone per day. Retail boycotts have been used against clothing sweats…

Consider getting a bread maker: Keurig for bread.

Or a mixing bowl and 15 minutes or so to hand-knead. You don't need a machine, likely also made in a factory under similar conditions, to make bread dough.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#48

Post by asdfasdfasd333 » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:12 PM UTC

In August, charges were laid against Fiera Foods under the Occupational Health and Safety Act for the 2016 death of a temp agency worker named Amina Diaby. Her hijab was caught in a machine, strangling her.

/thread.

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#49

Post by FLGMwt » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:13 PM UTC

asdfasdfasd333 wrote: post #48

In August, charges were laid against Fiera Foods under the Occupational Health and Safety Act for the 2016 death of a temp agency worker named Amina Diaby. Her hijab was caught in a machine, strangling her. /thread.

Not sure what you're trying to convey?

Re: Undercover in a Toronto factory where a temp worker died

#50

Post by ams6110 » Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 2:14 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #35

transverse wrote: post #30

How is it not her own fault for wearing dangerous clothing (a hijab) in a factory workplace? Something as simple as long hair can be dangerous in such an environment, and a hijab or scarf is unthinkable. Darwin award.

It's still the employer's fault though, they're supposed to have managers etc that make sure people conform to safety rules and don't wear loose clothes, have their hair tied back, wear hair and beard nets, remove jewellery, wash hands, etc. Actually (reading further in the article myself now), the journalist is told all that. But on the other hand, there's religious freedom and rules that come into play. In this cas…

Agree, but in the PC climate of today people are afraid to criticize any expression of Muslim faith even for legitimate reasons such as "wearing a hijab when using this machine will likely get you killed."