The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout • Hacker News Board

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#41

Post by joshvm » Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 12:38 PM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #28

My keychain fob is a tourist special - the Magic Roundabout, Swindon. A few things about the Magic Roundabout: If you are a rail user then you will inevitably have rail replacement bus services that will inevitably give you a free tour of the Magic Roundabout. You can get on the top deck at the front and witness the awesomeness of the roundabout precariously but with a good view. By bicycle the Magic Roundabout is a…

There's been a Waterstones in the Brunel Centre for at least a couple of decades. Proper bookshop though, sadly not.

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#42

Post by barrkel » Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 12:39 PM UTC

mojuba wrote: post #20

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #12

I used to live close enough to this to drive over it occasionally. When it's busy traffic is literally coming at you from three directions, the geometry isn't obvious or intuitive, and none of the usual rules apply. It always had glass from collisions on it.

Roundabouts have an extra mental tax on drivers, something that's often disregarded in this kind of debates. You should be more alert, more aware of your surroundings, decisions are tougher to make (move? or not yet?). This 7-in-1 roundabout seems to be taking that to the extreme. I can imagine how uncomfortable and challenging it must be to cross it, especially for drivers who are not familiar with it. Now compare t…

Mental tax is a feature, not a bug. Intersections are dangerous; the more attention you need to pay, the better.

The biggest problem with light signals is that they don't force you to pay attention. Normal-sized roundabouts usually have a big feature in the middle that you'll hit if you don't pay any attention.

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#43

Post by verytrivial » Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 12:40 PM UTC

mojuba wrote: post #20

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #12

I used to live close enough to this to drive over it occasionally. When it's busy traffic is literally coming at you from three directions, the geometry isn't obvious or intuitive, and none of the usual rules apply. It always had glass from collisions on it.

Roundabouts have an extra mental tax on drivers, something that's often disregarded in this kind of debates. You should be more alert, more aware of your surroundings, decisions are tougher to make (move? or not yet?). This 7-in-1 roundabout seems to be taking that to the extreme. I can imagine how uncomfortable and challenging it must be to cross it, especially for drivers who are not familiar with it. Now compare t…

Blocking the view of other roads that also converge on an intersection can have the perhaps surprising effect of reducing accidents, or at least the severity of them. Removing the view of other cars forces drivers to slow down and check when much closer to the intersection. I'm guessing it also reduces lead-foot hubris, but won't stop outright intersection-gamblers. Not all taxes are bad.

(I can't find a reference after an admittedly lame search attempt, sorry!)

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#44

Post by dingaling » Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 1:43 PM UTC

Marazan wrote: post #26

mojuba wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roundabouts have an extra mental tax on drivers, something that's often disregarded in this kind of debates. You should be more alert, more aware of your surroundings, decisions are tougher to make (move? or not yet?). This 7-in-1 roundabout seems to be taking that to the extreme. I can imagine how uncomfortable and challenging it must be to cross it, especially for drivers who are not familiar with it. Now compare t…

Is there really a mental tax for roundabouts over a regular 4 way junction. (Just regular roundabouts, not the magic variety)? Traffic can only approach you from one direction and traffic on the roundabout has priority, to me it seems much simpler.

> Traffic can only approach you from one direction

But from two axes in that direction; the entry-lane immediately to the right and then those already in circulation on the roundabout. And often two or more lanes on each of those axes.

When those in the nearest entry lane hold-back, something is approaching in circulation. Change focus to determine its lane, destination and rate of approach and if there is time to enter ahead of it.

For many modern roundabouts the view across the circle is deliberately obscured by vegetation for some reason.

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#45

Post by circular_logic » Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

timthorn wrote: post #34

circular_logic wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common misconception that I stumbled upon a few months ago. - The cathedral requirement was only to the 19th Century. - Size does not matter. For example St Davids is a city with only 1,600 inhabitants - A city in the UK is a place that has been granted city status by the monarch. - You can loose city status for similar arbitrary reasons - London is not even a fucking city in this system! UK city definition…

> London is not even a city in this system! Well, there is the City of London aka the Square Mile, as well as the City of Westminster.

Yes with populations of 9,400 and 247,600 respectively. They seem to invalidate the rest of the city from city status.

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#46

Post by Marazan » Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 4:49 PM UTC

dingaling wrote: post #44

Marazan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really a mental tax for roundabouts over a regular 4 way junction. (Just regular roundabouts, not the magic variety)? Traffic can only approach you from one direction and traffic on the roundabout has priority, to me it seems much simpler.

> Traffic can only approach you from one direction But from two axes in that direction; the entry-lane immediately to the right and then those already in circulation on the roundabout. And often two or more lanes on each of those axes. When those in the nearest entry lane hold-back, something is approaching in circulation. Change focus to determine its lane, destination and rate of approach and if there is time to en…

Two reasons for vegetation

1. Stop people driving straight across. As ridiculous as that sounds it happens too often.

2. Makes driver focus on the traffic approaching from the right Vs traffic entering opposite. (For nations driving on the left)

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#47

Post by GhostVII » Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 5:04 PM UTC

ggrothendieck wrote: post #35

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #12

I used to live close enough to this to drive over it occasionally. When it's busy traffic is literally coming at you from three directions, the geometry isn't obvious or intuitive, and none of the usual rules apply. It always had glass from collisions on it.

The video claims roundabouts reduce accidents but according to the experience here: http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettingAround/Roundabout-S... collisions involving injury or fatalities did decrease by 51% at intersections that were replaced by roundabouts; however, overall collisions at those intersections increased by 35%.

Also no one in Waterloo knows how to use the roundabouts yet, so those numbers should improve eventually.

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#48

Post by GhostVII » Sun, Sep 10, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

> It's even safer than a normal roundabout too, for one simple reason: traffic moves through it too slowly to actually cause an accident.

That seems like more of a negative than a positive... You can improve the safety of any intersection by designing it in a way that forces people to go slow, but we don't because we like to get places quickly.

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#49

Post by zapperdapper » Mon, Sep 11, 2017, 1:15 PM UTC

I used to live just south of Swindon and use to go across the Magic Roundabout regularly. It is completely nuts. My technique was just to put my foot down, go straight across and just pray - somehow I survived it. Even been across it multiple times in a Luton Van - at least cars give you a wide berth...

Re: The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout

#50

Post by theluketaylor » Mon, Sep 11, 2017, 7:51 PM UTC

GhostVII wrote: post #47

ggrothendieck wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video claims roundabouts reduce accidents but according to the experience here: http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettingAround/Roundabout-S... collisions involving injury or fatalities did decrease by 51% at intersections that were replaced by roundabouts; however, overall collisions at those intersections increased by 35%.

Also no one in Waterloo knows how to use the roundabouts yet, so those numbers should improve eventually.

It's getting better, but now the lack of roundabout knowledge can be exploited to travel much faster. So many people wait in the left lane when going straight through, leaving the right lane free to breeze though.

I do think the non standard roundabouts have become more dangerous now that people are more familiar with the "typical" layout found on ira needles. I was travelling north (or east in the parlance of this crazy city) on Bridge St this weekend. I had just crossed the grand and entered the roundabout intending to take the 3rd exit for Lancaster (left turn). This roundabout is odd due to the lane markings. I was well into the roundabout and had the right of way when a bus entered travelling south (west) on Bridge to turn right on Lancaster. We nearly collided (and if we had it would have certainly been the bus' fault) but I was able to brake in time. I am certain the slightly bizarre layout of this roundabout made it look like I was going to continue on Bridge and therefore it was safe for the bus to enter. I live in this area and this has not been an isolated encounter. The roads all have a single lane entering the roundabout but a special lane appears in the roundabout for taking the 3rd exit for Lancaster. This was likely done to increase traffic flow but results in real confusion for people entering from Bridge the other way. It would likely be much easier if there was just a single lane all the way through the roundabout (like Margaret&Union) so it was clear there isn't room for multiple vehicles in the roundabout at the same time.