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“Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

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Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#41

Post by binaryapparatus »

enraged_camel wrote: post #26
binaryapparatus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 46 years old, with over 25 years of programming and system administration experience. I've been here before internet existed. You better believe I know what I am talking about. I couldn't care less about karma kid.

Maybe you could explain it for us mere mortals.

As AnonymousPlanet said, scope of systemd and number of bad decisions (or good decisions with horrible implementation) is way too big to discuss here. Linux is no longer secure or reliable system it used to be. Engineering results and outcomes are bad from just about any angle you can take.

If you belong to the silent but great majority (lol) of users that enjoy and cherish systemd -- just carry on by all means.

If anything there is A LOT of aggression any time somebody says anything 'unwelcome' about systemd.

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#42

Post by frik »

kim0 wrote: post #2

@Oracle, please do the right thing and open-source Solaris. At least that's a proper way to die!

There was OpenSolaris

OpenSolaris is a discontinued, open source computer operating system based on Solaris created by Sun Microsystems. It was also the name of the project initiated by Sun to build a developer and user community around the software. After the acquisition of Sun Microsystems in 2010, Oracle decided to discontinue open development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSolaris

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#43

Post by llukas »

Fnoord wrote: post #29
binaryapparatus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 46 years old, with over 25 years of programming and system administration experience. I've been here before internet existed. You better believe I know what I am talking about. I couldn't care less about karma kid.

You couldn't care less about karma? If you're downvoted it is because your post is downright rude, and full with fallacies: argumentum ad verecundiam (stating your irrelevant age and experience, stating you lived before the internet existed), argumentum ad hominem (calling a random person on the internet whom you don't know a kid), non sequitur (none of what you wrote directly supports your claim). My explanation abo…

> OTOH, lack that connection and are more open to change provided they agree with the rationale.

Nice way of saying that young people need to redo errors of the old.

As for systemd - I'd wouldn't mind if it was executed properly. Booting speed is worst argument you can do for systemd - with ubiquitous SSD it doesn't really matter.

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#44

Post by jacquesm »

holydude wrote: post #28

You need billions and billions of dollars to keep such project alive. And even then if you cant attract the right amount of interest you are doomed. It is bloody expensive to keep these people employed and i guess oracle is not competent enough to manage these resources. It is sad to see solaris go but this is what was about to happen with any proprietary technology with a limited stream of revenue. I mean i do not t…

> You need billions and billions of dollars to keep such project alive.

Makes you wonder where Linus stores his old socks.

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#45

Post by sjellis »

notalaser wrote: post #21
nailer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every major Linux distro uses systemd. I know its opponents are vocal but a bunch of us are silently enjoying the simplicity of .service files and systemd timers.

In the meantime, a bunch of us developers are desperately trying to figure out what the fsck broke this time, drinking our sorrows about this new life where we can't debug anything that happens at boot, and frantically setting up BSDs on our laptops at home, so that we can at least get a break from this mess when we're at home. I (thankfully only) used to do Linux BSPs in a former life. In the last year or so of doin…

"I (thankfully only) used to do Linux BSPs in a former life. In the last year or so of doing that, I think we spent about 15-20% of a project's time debugging systemd problems and working around it being too smart for its own good."

It would be great to see in-depth experience reports for systemd, good and bad. The overwhelming majority of anti-systemd commentary has just been noise for so long, and as somebody who is very much in favor of systemd, I'd love to see some real discussion and actual informed criticism.

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#46

Post by jacquesm »

kuschku wrote: post #23
binaryapparatus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simplicity of systemd timers? Right.

Compared to the alternatives? Definitely. As an application developer and hobby sysadmin, systemd is a godsend over the misconfigured and broken stuff distributions have delivered for years. systemd has made my work a lot more effective, and I’ve gained massive productivity.

> As an application developer and hobby sysadmin, systemd is a godsend over the misconfigured and broken stuff distributions have delivered for years.

And that is roughly the size of the problem. If you're an application developer or a hobby sysadmin then probably systemd is good for you, but if you're an experienced sysadmin it spells 'fixed what wasn't broken' and it re-introduces many issues that were already thought about, taken care of and laid to rest.

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#47

Post by floatboth »

frik wrote: post #42
kim0 wrote: post #2

@Oracle, please do the right thing and open-source Solaris. At least that's a proper way to die!

There was OpenSolaris OpenSolaris is a discontinued, open source computer operating system based on Solaris created by Sun Microsystems. It was also the name of the project initiated by Sun to build a developer and user community around the software. After the acquisition of Sun Microsystems in 2010, Oracle decided to discontinue open development. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSolaris

And it's been forked into illumos. That's where the old community went. Oracle Solaris was a dead end from the start. illumos is the true Solaris.

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#48

Post by holydude »

jacquesm wrote: post #44
holydude wrote: post #28

You need billions and billions of dollars to keep such project alive. And even then if you cant attract the right amount of interest you are doomed. It is bloody expensive to keep these people employed and i guess oracle is not competent enough to manage these resources. It is sad to see solaris go but this is what was about to happen with any proprietary technology with a limited stream of revenue. I mean i do not t…

> You need billions and billions of dollars to keep such project alive. Makes you wonder where Linus stores his old socks.

Oh you seriously believe linux is not where it is due to huge sums from intel,samsung,red hat and countless of others ? Please...

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#49

Post by nottorp »

sjellis wrote: post #45
notalaser wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the meantime, a bunch of us developers are desperately trying to figure out what the fsck broke this time, drinking our sorrows about this new life where we can't debug anything that happens at boot, and frantically setting up BSDs on our laptops at home, so that we can at least get a break from this mess when we're at home. I (thankfully only) used to do Linux BSPs in a former life. In the last year or so of doin…

"I (thankfully only) used to do Linux BSPs in a former life. In the last year or so of doing that, I think we spent about 15-20% of a project's time debugging systemd problems and working around it being too smart for its own good." It would be great to see in-depth experience reports for systemd, good and bad. The overwhelming majority of anti-systemd commentary has just been noise for so long, and as somebody who i…

The way I read systemd news, it's not worth analyzing it because Poettering will say 'won't fix' or 'working as intended'.

Re: “Oracle laid off all Solaris tech staff in a classic silent EOL of the product”

#50

Post by sjellis »

binaryapparatus wrote: post #37
nailer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every major Linux distro uses systemd. I know its opponents are vocal but a bunch of us are silently enjoying the simplicity of .service files and systemd timers.

> opponents are vocal > bunch of us are silently enjoying Sorry to have to address this. It very much looks like underhand systemd forum/post control I have seen on a lot of other places. I wouldn't bother to respond but I lived in a former communist country and formulations like this kind of make me twitch. So number of opponents is very minor but they make lots of noise. While the 'normal' people, those who really…

"Things have to be said."

Then say them. Simply posting that systemd is bad, and appealing to your position as an experienced UNIX user without giving specifics is just signalling at best.

I probably count as a Veteran System Administrator myself, and personally I am tired of anti-systemd people coming into conversations that have little to do with systemd, and trying to hijack the conversation with content-light posts.

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