Work at the edge of your range • Hacker News Board

Re: Work at the edge of your range

#41

Post by rnprince » Fri, Sep 01, 2017, 10:51 PM UTC

I'm not really sure about this metaphor, but I love what Schoenberg had to say in Harmonielehre about choosing voice registers in the parts you write. It never occurred to me how much art went into something seemingly subtle until I read this from him in a section about four-part vocal writing.

"Obviously the range of solo voices, yes, even of choral voices, is in reality larger than, perhaps different from, that indicated here, which only aims at a fairly correct average. The middle register, which should be the one chiefly used, lies a fourth or a fifth from the highest and lowest tones, so that we have:"

"Of course the pupil cannot get along with just the tones of the middle register and will have to use some from the higher or lower registers- naturally, at first only the adjacent tones, but then also on occasion the highest or lowest, if there is no other way. In general, however, he should seldom overstep to any significant degree the bounds of an octave whoever wants to write parts comfortable for the voice will avoid, even in actual composition, extended passages exclusively in one of the outer registers. The pupil should therefore enter these registers only for a short time and leave them as soon as possible. Whenever the treatment of solo or choral voices in practice indicates otherwise, it is because the composer sought some compositional or acoustical effects irrelevant to our present aims."

"The characteristics of the voices indicate the requirements, supported by experience for their combination in choral writing. If no voice is to stand out, then all voices will seek out registers whose acoustical potential is approximately the same. For, were a voice to sing in a more brilliant register, while the others move in a duller register, that voice would naturally be quite noticeable. If this voice is intended to stand out (for example, when an inner voice has the melody), then it is well that it sing in a more expressive register. But if it is inadvertently conspicuous, then the director would have to rely on shading, he would have to create equilibrium by subduing the prominent voice or by strengthening the weaker ones."

Re: Work at the edge of your range

#42

Post by groby_b » Fri, Sep 01, 2017, 11:01 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #32

lliamander wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have the right idea. Here are my interpretations: - never take a job for which you meet all of the "required skills and experience" (e.g. look for jobs in which there is at least one new technology in the stack) - never take on a project that's a rehash of one you've done before It's never bad idea to get paid to learn something new.

> never take a job for which you meet all of the "required skills and experience" Is there a way to do this without knowing someone who can get you through the HR firewall, then being known as "That Idiot" until you figure it out? EDIT: Difficulty, you must be an average programmer. Linus could probably get a job wherever.

Since we're all "That Idiot" to somebody anyways, might as well not worry about it.

Leaves the HR firewall. You undermine that by having somebody on the inside refer you. Or by having a work history that gets you in the door (which, of course, has a bootstrap problem). Or by working on OSS in that field. In other words: Anything that makes you stand out positively from all the other average programmers.

Re: Work at the edge of your range

#43

Post by groby_b » Fri, Sep 01, 2017, 11:06 PM UTC

nthcolumn wrote: post #11

This is, for programmers at any rate, terrible advice and something many noob programmers do. If some code is right at the edge of your range then you are not bright enough to refactor it later. I can't say it is a good idea for singers either although I wouldn't know really. Even the best professional sports persons play 'within themselves' only rarely having to super-extend.

Having been in professional sports: You always work at the edge of your range. You compete relying on the work you've done all those times before.

You cannot develop when you're within your comfort zone.

And the same goes for programming. You must go outside your comfort zone, or you'll stagnate. One of the poor souls who have 20 years experience, but alas the same year 20 times over. You grow because you failed. Over, and over, and over.

If you code at the edge of your range? More senior people will help you get things into a better shape. You don't have more senior people? Don't worry, you'll learn to refactor what you created. You'll curse your past self, but you'll learn :)

If you play it safe, you'll burn out from pure boredom.

Re: Work at the edge of your range

#44

Post by nthcolumn » Sat, Sep 02, 2017, 10:17 PM UTC

groby_b wrote: post #43

nthcolumn wrote: post #11

This is, for programmers at any rate, terrible advice and something many noob programmers do. If some code is right at the edge of your range then you are not bright enough to refactor it later. I can't say it is a good idea for singers either although I wouldn't know really. Even the best professional sports persons play 'within themselves' only rarely having to super-extend.

Having been in professional sports: You always work at the edge of your range. You compete relying on the work you've done all those times before. You cannot develop when you're within your comfort zone. And the same goes for programming. You must go outside your comfort zone, or you'll stagnate. One of the poor souls who have 20 years experience, but alas the same year 20 times over. You grow because you failed. Ove…

I'm not sure about competing in track and field but played professional team sport at the highest level, agree maybe in the gym or on the road you push yourself to the edge and beyond but on the field it is the repetition, the drills and the routines which allow you to express yourself - certainly not running around headless, constantly forcing the pace, will just cause unacceptable mistakes - there is no margin for error at all, you do not want to be 'it'. I'm not sure working at the very edge of your range is the correct expression - speed of thought rather than limb counts and though you are very close to max just to stay alive we were always told to 'play within' ourselves.

As for programming - I've seen countless noobs make things that were far too complicated for them to understand later - let alone anybody else. If I had only one piece of advice to any intern it would be 'keep it simple'. I don't agree with learning everything the hard way, by trial and error because maybe you'll never get the chance to fix that crap you made because y'know there will always be people who can do it to an acceptable standard first time. Life does not always give you do-overs.