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World War II was totally unrealistic

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Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#41

Post by Yzupnick »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #38
stcredzero wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned before, not only do the Nazis have an urgent plan to conquer the world ASAP, but they also have super science weapons research. Stealth bombers, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and jet planes. Yet, at the beginning of the war, they faced cavalry charges ! There are real life super-scientists engaged in real-life super-science intrigue to keep nuclear secrets out of Nazi hands. And on top of that,…

"these guys are worse or on a par for atrocities with anyone ever, real or imagined" If you look at the total number of people killed, hitler's atrocities pale in comparison with those of Stalin and Mao.

True but if you look at the manner in which it was done then the Nazis are up there. What was horrible was the systematic way it was done. It wasn't a city gassed on a whim, or a population shot because they where rebelling. Those are terrible, but what is terrible about what the Nazis did was in the planning and efficiency of it all.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#42

Post by ju2tin »

stcredzero wrote: post #37
patio11 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the aircraft carriers made out of ice, the campaign to firebomb Japanese cities using bats with incendiaries tied to them, or the brilliant idea to starve out Japanese island garrisons by airdropping pigs onto them in the hope that the pigs would eat the grains before the Japanese ate the pigs (failed).

Someone should do a post or web comic about pig projectiles in warfare.

Also bats with firebombs attached to them. Surely that's almost as good as sharks with laser beams on their heads.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#43

Post by metamemetics »

rmc wrote: post #30
skalpelis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is our all generations' responsibility to work together in the whole world to prevent such atrocities happening again.

Shame we're not doing great. Just look at Rwanda. A genocide in the mid 1990s

The Second Congo War was the deadliest conflict since World War 2 and lasted until 2003.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#44

Post by arethuza »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #38
stcredzero wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned before, not only do the Nazis have an urgent plan to conquer the world ASAP, but they also have super science weapons research. Stealth bombers, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and jet planes. Yet, at the beginning of the war, they faced cavalry charges ! There are real life super-scientists engaged in real-life super-science intrigue to keep nuclear secrets out of Nazi hands. And on top of that,…

"these guys are worse or on a par for atrocities with anyone ever, real or imagined" If you look at the total number of people killed, hitler's atrocities pale in comparison with those of Stalin and Mao.

Another big difference was that in Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's China just about everyone was under potential threat - being a member of the party or close to the leader wasn't really any help.

Whereas in Nazi Germany it was a much colder clinical decision to systematically remove "undesirable" elements from society. I think it is the systematic element of their terror, rather than the sheer lunatic barbarity of the communist regimes, that makes them so scary.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#45

Post by vegas »

pilif wrote: post #3

interesting view on the history. Of course, over here in Europe, we go into great detail when looking at WWII in history at school (at least the European part) and to be honest, I have to agree with the poster - all this feels kind of surreal and inaccurate. I guess this is already some consequence of history-rewriting going on in some parts, combined with strange coincidences. But in general, yes, the whole story, e…

So we should can the history book writers in favor of JMS? I could have told you that a decade ago!

Also, S1 is the best B5 there is, rise of the psycorps, nightwatch, captain getting kidnapped by creepy intelligence guys to be mindfucked, it's just like WWII!

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#46

Post by arethuza »

patio11 wrote: post #17
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #12

At first I thought the author might be poking fun at the war -- then I realized that he was actually poking fun at himself. People have high standards for fiction, yet some of the strangest things are real-life stories from history. A couple of my favorites from the Pacific Theater: 1) Radar detected the Japanese strike force approaching Pearl Harbor, but the guy in charge said it was a glitch. 2) The Japanese planne…

Not to mention the aircraft carriers made out of ice, the campaign to firebomb Japanese cities using bats with incendiaries tied to them, or the brilliant idea to starve out Japanese island garrisons by airdropping pigs onto them in the hope that the pigs would eat the grains before the Japanese ate the pigs (failed).

What about bombs bouncing on water or giant weaponized Catherine Wheels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjandrum

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#47

Post by jacquesm »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #5
vgurgov wrote: post #2

I dont know the author and why its here on HN, but its easy to make obvious statements that most of TV shows are oversimplified BS. I'd be interested to read his vision of true WWII history though. I think the truth is that its was complex combination of various forces. None of them were evil/good or black/white, simply because it was a story about huge masses of ppl , who are hmmm.. more complex than good elves and…

Oh cmon, it has definitely been long enough to poke fun at now. The last people who fought in it are dying as we speak. The important thing is we should never forget the dead and forget Europe's folly of WW1 and WW2. Its our generation's responsibility to work together in Europe so it doesn't happen again.

We've already forgotten.

I'm witnessing the rise of fascism around me as I write this, it comes in the guise of 'freedom', just like last time. So it is already happening again, indeed, while the last who fought to put down the previous monstrosity are still alive.

We'll see where it leads, I'm not so pessimistic as to think that it will be as bad as last time but there is a small chance that in the next elections the Netherlands will have it's first ultra-right wing nationalist regime.

People really do forget, and while I'm all for poking fun at stuff it would be good if the lessons of history stayed learned.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#48

Post by brazzy »

stcredzero wrote: post #36
brazzy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to lots of people in Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq, the Israeli and American leaderships are as close to pure evil as has ever existed. "Evil" is a concept useful for propaganda and little else.

Often, those who say this haven't been on the receiving end of much evil. Also, please name a government that hasn't done anything evil. There's none! Governments are dangerous things.

Usually, those who are most enthusiastic about dividing things into "good" and "evil" are themselves extremely evil by common standards. Case in point: the Nazis, to whom the Jews were evil incarnate, and they themselves the valiant defenders of the Aryan race.

Calling an action "evil" does not explain it or help prevent it - it's usually a way to express revulsion and avoid further thinking.

Calling specific people "evil" again does not explain their actions or give insights how to make them not-evil or prevent others from becoming like them. In fact, all such explanations and insights are usually strongly rejected by those who'd rather express the strongest possible revulsion for them.

Finally, calling groups of people "evil" is almost always a method to dehumanize them and justify killing them, while suspending critical thought in those you want to do the killing.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#49

Post by DaveChild »

patio11 wrote: post #17
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #12

At first I thought the author might be poking fun at the war -- then I realized that he was actually poking fun at himself. People have high standards for fiction, yet some of the strangest things are real-life stories from history. A couple of my favorites from the Pacific Theater: 1) Radar detected the Japanese strike force approaching Pearl Harbor, but the guy in charge said it was a glitch. 2) The Japanese planne…

Not to mention the aircraft carriers made out of ice, the campaign to firebomb Japanese cities using bats with incendiaries tied to them, or the brilliant idea to starve out Japanese island garrisons by airdropping pigs onto them in the hope that the pigs would eat the grains before the Japanese ate the pigs (failed).

> aircraft carriers made out of ice

Pykrete, really - a combination of wood and ice. And the idea had merit - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk for lots of interesting details.

Re: World War II was totally unrealistic

#50

Post by cturner »

brazzy wrote: post #18
arethuza wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about your definition of evil - but to me parts of the Nazi and Soviet leaderships were as close to pure evil as has ever existed.

And to lots of people in Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq, the Israeli and American leaderships are as close to pure evil as has ever existed. "Evil" is a concept useful for propaganda and little else.

    "Evil" is a concept useful for propaganda and little else.
Really? Can you read _Lord of the Flies_ and conclude that what the boys are doing isn't evil, because all ethics are relative?
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