Earlier quoted context omitted.
I get that games nowadays, even retro, are made using modern tools. My question is whether that's absolutely required, or if you could make a modern game using old tools. For example, one guy ported Canabalt to the Commodore64: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yibnVB9iXfU But instead of porting, the team would develop new games like Canabalt using old tools, and then sell the games integrated with an emulator.
But why? There's a reason we don't use the old tools anymore.
Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
41–50 of 51 posts
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#42I notice the mouse, I really hope Apple do acknowledge they make crappy mouse. Another thing I am wondering, what makes a company not hiring programmer at old age when their brain are still functioning properly?
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#43I notice the mouse, I really hope Apple do acknowledge they make crappy mouse. Another thing I am wondering, what makes a company not hiring programmer at old age when their brain are still functioning properly?
With more age usually comes more experience, and with that higher wages. That's the canned answer. But in this case I see your point. Many of these young CEOs just don't want older people in their offices. They have youth as part of "their culture". They also generally assume that older workers will be slower to adapt and less welcoming of a more volatile work environment; both frequent traits of many tech companies.
I'm not sure that is true, if you can't get a job because you are old then your wage is zero.
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#44I wonder what happened to the generations of 70s/80s/90s arcade/NES/SNES/etc... game developers. Where are they now..
A surprising number of NES/SNES developers are still employed, if not at their original companies, at other game companies. I bet for every Shigeru Miyamoto you hear about, there are hundreds of other 50-something programmers who are still plugging away at games... and from what I hear, a lot of them have refused to adapt to modern languages/approaches/IDEs, which would explain why those particular people are not doi…
There are plenty of young people like that too.
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#45I wonder what happened to the generations of 70s/80s/90s arcade/NES/SNES/etc... game developers. Where are they now..
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I get that games nowadays, even retro, are made using modern tools. My question is whether that's absolutely required, or if you could make a modern game using old tools. For example, one guy ported Canabalt to the Commodore64: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yibnVB9iXfU But instead of porting, the team would develop new games like Canabalt using old tools, and then sell the games integrated with an emulator.
But why? There's a reason we don't use the old tools anymore.
But these old technologies have positive traits that are lost and sometimes recovered in the newer technologies. Examples of when older technology was recovered could be the introduction of lambdas and higher order functions into mainstream languages like c++ and python; that's something that "older" languages like lisp and haskell have had since their inception. I'm also to understand that Windows servers needed a graphical interface because not everything was doable from command line interface, and so setup had to be done manually instead of just making a script containing what you'd otherwise would've typed through a CLI. Now, they've improved the situation by making a CLI in the form of Powershell and making more of the system available through it.
As for other advantages of older tech that are not mainstream in "newer" tools, there is for example the fact that lisp machines are completely coded in lisp. Mind you, I haven't used a lisp machine myself, but I'm to understand that they have the ability to modify any part of anything running on the computer at any time even while the program is running, with minimum "build" time. I've experienced this on emacs, but on a lisp machine it's everything. Right now, I'm experiencing a bug on Firefox where some checkboxes and radioboxes are not rendered; this happens even with all add-ons uninstalled. If I wanted investigate this further, I'd have to download the firefox source, and read it in whatever multiple languages it's written in (as opposed to just lisp). Let's imagine I find the bug and fix it. I'd have to build the whole of firefox, not just the pieces I've changed. mozilla.org tells me I'd need "2G RAM with lots of available swap space" and, I imagine, lots of time. On a lisp machine, I'd just need to rebuild the functions I've changed.
Emacs also has support for live coding in multiple languages through addons like slime for common lisp, cider for clojure, skewer for javascript, etc. I'm not sure if things like that are available in "newer" IDEs.
Sorry, I ended up ranting. I just love to research "old" technology, as I find that they have much to offer over modern "equivalents".
EDIT: This post seems to stray a little from the context of this thread, but consider for example live coding. I'm not familiar with the workflow of the typical modern game developer, but if modern tools don't offer something similar to live coding, they might benefit from it. If a particular piece of code is only launched under very specific conditions in the game, something that would require a little time to setup, they might benefit from being able to change/add and load the new code while they're playing in that "deep context". I remember once seeing a video of someone developing an FPS in Common Lisp. They where shooting at a wall and checking how it impacted with it. They would switch windows to emacs, edit a bit inside a function, hit a keybinding, and have the shots altered immediately in the running game, without having to restart it or anything. They would develop the game while playing it!
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
But why? There's a reason we don't use the old tools anymore.
To take advantage of the skills and experience of the programmers mentioned in sdrothrock's post.
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
But why? There's a reason we don't use the old tools anymore.
Old is subjective (when it was created or last updated), and even when old in all respects, it's not universally bad. Many would consider linux/unix, command-line interfaces, vim, emacs, common lisp, haskell, lisp machines, etc. to be old/useless, because they lack pretty graphics, support for the newest hardware, or is simply not windows nor mac. But these old technologies have positive traits that are lost and some…
In this case, though, we're talking about programming games using assembly language for outdated hardware, and doing so for no real technical reason. There's little definitive in software development, but we can agree on this: avoid assembly language whenever it's not mandatory for performance/memory/platform reasons. Software written in assembly is harder to understand, harder to fix, and harder to change. This is one case where using relatively modern tools (i.e. higher level languages) is an unambiguous win.
I do agree old tech has an indisputable charm. That's not what I'm arguing against here. If you want to write retrogames using old-fashioned assembly just because you can, that's fine! It will just be harder.
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Old is subjective (when it was created or last updated), and even when old in all respects, it's not universally bad. Many would consider linux/unix, command-line interfaces, vim, emacs, common lisp, haskell, lisp machines, etc. to be old/useless, because they lack pretty graphics, support for the newest hardware, or is simply not windows nor mac. But these old technologies have positive traits that are lost and some…
I don't disagree with what you're saying in the more general case. In this case, though, we're talking about programming games using assembly language for outdated hardware, and doing so for no real technical reason. There's little definitive in software development, but we can agree on this: avoid assembly language whenever it's not mandatory for performance/memory/platform reasons. Software written in assembly is h…
If you're arguing specifically that using an assembly language is less productive than a higher level language, then I fully agree with you.
Re: Japan’s ’golden coder’ making games apps aged 82 [video]
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't disagree with what you're saying in the more general case. In this case, though, we're talking about programming games using assembly language for outdated hardware, and doing so for no real technical reason. There's little definitive in software development, but we can agree on this: avoid assembly language whenever it's not mandatory for performance/memory/platform reasons. Software written in assembly is h…
This subthread wasn't really restricting itself to writing games in assembly languages. Multiple ancestor posts were talking about "tools" in general, including approaches and IDEs, like sdrothrock expanded in an ancestor post. If you're arguing specifically that using an assembly language is less productive than a higher level language, then I fully agree with you.
Somehow I doubt these die-hard ex Nintendo devs are insisting on using Emacs or Lisp. I'd say those are "modern" tools anyway, in the sense that they still hold revolutionary insights for modern software development -- and also probably were NOT used for Nintendo games.