Probably would of been a good idea to have references to all those claims.
10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
41–50 of 158 posts
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#42Makes me actually respect Google! Would have not expected them having such an open culture that lets controversial viewpoints survive.
Do you think the person who wrote this will survive (not being fired)?
I surely hope so. I think people should be allowed to discuss things like this in an open and civil manner, no matter how wrong or flawed their arguments are. As long as they are not openly hurting or disrespecting their coworkers, I don't see the issue with a document like this exploring ideas. When we promote "challenging ideas" and discussion, it applies to everyone, not only those we agree with.
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you think that programming is a more stressful job than traditionally female jobs like nurse, teacher, or childrearing, then I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
Yes I think so. I have been a teacher and CS engineer so for me it is clear that CS is more stressful. Nurse is something I couldn't do and when I always ask them why are they nurses they say they feel great when they help people and they know they cannot help everybody. I don't know anyone in CS who feels great when writting software. You can keep the bridge you bought in brooklyn.
I might have to disagree with you on two things.
I know plenty of people who are in CS for the challenge. They absolutely love writing software.
Also, nurses do what they do because they feel great helping people but in no way is that easy. Working in terminal care is extremely mentally taxing as many to all of the people they work with are preparing to/going to die. In the same way, nurses in the ER/ICU have to deal with people dying that are in no way prepared to die and that is also extremely mentally taxing. In regard to being physically taxing, much in the same way that people in CS have to deal with deadlines and long stressful working hours, nurses can often end up with up to 18-20 hour shifts with their off-hours and off-days classified as on call hours that they will usually get called in to work for.
Nurses definitely are in the field because they enjoy helping people but that in no way means that they have an easier job than people in the CS field.
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes I think so. I have been a teacher and CS engineer so for me it is clear that CS is more stressful. Nurse is something I couldn't do and when I always ask them why are they nurses they say they feel great when they help people and they know they cannot help everybody. I don't know anyone in CS who feels great when writting software. You can keep the bridge you bought in brooklyn.
I might have to disagree with you on two things. I know plenty of people who are in CS for the challenge. They absolutely love writing software. Also, nurses do what they do because they feel great helping people but in no way is that easy. Working in terminal care is extremely mentally taxing as many to all of the people they work with are preparing to/going to die. In the same way, nurses in the ER/ICU have to deal…
I don't think nurses have an easy job. I don't think I could do it. I am saying people have different skills, for some of them is easier to be a nurse for others to be a CS engineer. I wouldn't enjoy to be a nurse the same way another person wouldn't enjoy to be an engineer. What I am saying that there could be biological reason why some people suits more for one job or another. And gender is only one expression of the ADN and can be linked with those biological reasons.
We should respect all the jobs and understand that all of them required different skills and also that different people have different skills. And we should try not to force people into jobs or discrimine (either negative or positive) because of the gender or height or race or whatever. We should evaluate the skills and give them something they will enjoy doing and will do great.
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#45> I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions.…
I recommend this documentary which goes into that question
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#46> I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions.…
I often ask people who talk about this two simple questions:
- Is the extreme sex disparity in the prison population in the United States a result of a massive system of anti-male oppression or a result of population level sex differences between men and women.
- How do you interpret the experiences of trans people on hormones who experience their personalities change after taking hormones.
I'll admit it is a bit of a cheap shot, those are carefully chosen to cause cognitive dissonance, but that's an effective tool for getting people to clarify their opinions.
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#47My impression when reading this was that the author intended it to be taken seriously. It is written with a decidedly "academic" tone. However, it is very light on actual research and evidence. Author says "Humans are inherently cooperative" is a bias on the Left. Where does this come from? More unsourced claims that strike me as suspect: "Respect for the strong/authority" is a bias on the Right. Women have more "Extraversion expressed as gregariousness rather than assertiveness. Also, higher agreeableness."
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#48> I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions.…
I often ask people who talk about this two simple questions: - Is the extreme sex disparity in the prison population in the United States a result of a massive system of anti-male oppression or a result of population level sex differences between men and women. - How do you interpret the experiences of trans people on hormones who experience their personalities change after taking hormones. I'll admit it is a bit of…
Of course there are gender differences..but the only relevant question in this context you or anyone should ask is whether those gender differences justify lower participation of women in technology.
If you're a capitalist, if you believe in exploiting the market to the benefit yourself, you would be stupid and shortsighted to not find a way to utilize women and minorities in any way possible to serve your business.
Say you discover that women and Indians are biologically incapable of working more than 3 hours at a stretch without taking a tea break. Use that tidbit of knowledge to maybe place women and Indians closer to the breakroom. Don't brush their individual idiosyncrasies under the carpet. Use them.
And once you start using them to benefit yourself, realize that companies like Google are doing exactly that by promoting policies to bring in and retain women. It's not altruism - it's pure business.
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#49My impression when reading this was that the author intended it to be taken seriously. It is written with a decidedly "academic" tone. However, it is very light on actual research and evidence. Author says "Humans are inherently cooperative" is a bias on the Left. Where does this come from? More unsourced claims that strike me as suspect: "Respect for the strong/authority" is a bias on the Right. Women have more "Ext…
Really it's debatable that people work together? I get bias but seriously this is like saying I have a Left bias because I think the Earth is round.
Re: 10 page anti-diversity screed circulating internally at Google
#50This is not merely sexist. Amidst his rambling "evolutionary psychology" argument he also protests racial diversity programs.[1] And his explanation for that? It's buried here:
"Left tends to deny science concerning biological differences between people (e.g., IQ and sex differences)." (emphasis mine)
So women are bad at programming because of evolution and non-whites/asians are bad at it because they're dumb. According to science. Does dressing this up in pseudo-academic prose make it any less racist?
[1] "Stretch, BOLD, CSSI, Engineering Practicum (to an extent), and several other Google funded internal and external programs are for people with a certain gender or race"