Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#41

Post by aaronbrethorst » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #9

Clubber wrote: post #5

I use to hate this guy, then I saw the Vice interview on him. It was nice to see his side of the story. I don't know much about this case in particular. It was kinda sleazy to see the congress question him about his price increases when they knew damn well it was perfectly legal and they haven't done anything to stop it. Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. Vice inter…

I agree. My initial perception of Shkreli was the commonly accepted one of revulsion and hatred. After watching the Vice piece, plus a lot of Shkreli's finance talks and live streams, I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent.

Lots of sociopaths are charming. Fun article: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbxb4m/charming-manipulat...

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#42

Post by enraged_camel » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

pyroinferno wrote: post #32

hellofunk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

You have no clue what this court case was about, do you?

The court case doesn't have to be about that for the argument to still hold true.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#43

Post by ptr_void » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #25

cloakandswagger wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? Who did Shkreli hurt here and how?

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

I have seen videos where he explains: insurance pays for the medicine, not individuals, and people who can't afford/have insurance gets them freely from government programs/their company programs.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#44

Post by AJRF » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #25

cloakandswagger wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? Who did Shkreli hurt here and how?

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

He raised the price of Daraprim in order to fund R&D to find alternative treatments as Daraprim caused some nasty side effects. It was free to any individual who wished to obtain it, with Martin footing the bill. The side effect of the price hike was the insurance companies has to pay more, not individuals. So no, one couldn't argue he hurt a lot of sick people.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#45

Post by ZenoArrow » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

hood_syntax wrote: post #14

sqeaky wrote: post #7

Putting people like Shkreli into prison for a long time is vital to the long term stability of society. I wish money didn't buy options to avoid prison and I wish that people with his behaviors didn't so often accrue large amounts of money.

That would be great if he wasn't one of many, and if nothing of significance will come from this ruling (it won't). He's just a convenient target that can be pointed to and said of "Look, aren't we doing our job?" when the truth is nothing will change in the long run.

> "That would be great if he wasn't one of many"

You could say the same for almost any crime. Why should those who commit white-collar crime be allowed to continue without repercussions, whilst those who commit much smaller offences get jail time?

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#46

Post by purplerabbit » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #27

cloakandswagger wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. My initial perception of Shkreli was the commonly accepted one of revulsion and hatred. After watching the Vice piece, plus a lot of Shkreli's finance talks and live streams, I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent.

The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. There's no redeeming yourself from that just because you're charming or intelligent. Psychopaths often are.

Do you have evidence of this happening? Shkreli said publicly that if anyone couldn't afford his pricey drug he'd ensure that they got it. I have no idea whether he ever followed through.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#47

Post by baakss » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #27

cloakandswagger wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. My initial perception of Shkreli was the commonly accepted one of revulsion and hatred. After watching the Vice piece, plus a lot of Shkreli's finance talks and live streams, I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent.

The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. There's no redeeming yourself from that just because you're charming or intelligent. Psychopaths often are.

>The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication.

Who died? I'm curious because if that happened, I figure we would have heard about it. Do you have a link to a story I can read?

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#48

Post by eli » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

lucaspm98 wrote: post #37

swang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prosecutors argued that Shkreli lied to investors in two hedge funds and the pharmaceutical company Retrophin, all of which he founded. Shkreli told investors he graduated from Columbia University, that his hedge fund was large and profitable, and that he had hired an auditor, they said. These were all lies, according to prosecutors. yeah seems like a great dude...

To be fair, the quote itself says "according to prosecutors" so this is only one side of the story.

Well, 12 jurors agreed.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#49

Post by ZenoArrow » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

ptr_void wrote: post #43

hellofunk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

I have seen videos where he explains: insurance pays for the medicine, not individuals, and people who can't afford/have insurance gets them freely from government programs/their company programs.

Price gouging by pharmaceutical companies almost certainly drives up health insurance costs. It's not a victimless crime.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#50

Post by kbenson » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

swang wrote: post #22

Clubber wrote: post #5

I use to hate this guy, then I saw the Vice interview on him. It was nice to see his side of the story. I don't know much about this case in particular. It was kinda sleazy to see the congress question him about his price increases when they knew damn well it was perfectly legal and they haven't done anything to stop it. Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. Vice inter…

> Prosecutors argued that Shkreli lied to investors in two hedge funds and the pharmaceutical company Retrophin, all of which he founded. Shkreli told investors he graduated from Columbia University, that his hedge fund was large and profitable, and that he had hired an auditor, they said. These were all lies, according to prosecutors. yeah seems like a great dude...

Interestingly, his fraud seems to fall into two categories. Lying about his fund's bonafides and status on one side, and working hard to make sure those same investors got what they were expecting by founding a company, making it successful and paying them out from the profits.

It sounds like he definitely lied to investors, but he apparently didn't intend to steal their money, and took pains to make sure he did not cost them money in the end. Apparently most investors in the fund that lost all it's money ended up close to tripling their investment after he worked to replace the lost money in the end.

That leaves me thinking that "up to 20 years" is a bit harsh given the facts. Hopefully the judge will take that into consideration and give him a more lenient sentence.