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The Best DevOps Is NoOps

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Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#41

Post by dzhiurgis »

chii wrote: post #17
phatbyte wrote: post #10

Maybe I'm old school, but I really hope developers give a serious thought before jumping into this vendor lock-in trap. This is specially concerning if not scary, when you start to "outsource" the backend business rules to something like Firebase or other BaaS systems. Using these as PoC or for an MVP, I'm 100% behind it, but using it on production ready products, it's a disaster waiting to happen, as it basically pu…

> it basically puts your company product under someone else's rules, and if those rules changes or worse, if these companies go bankrupt, migrating to another system could be the death of your product as well. This is basically where standards has to come in. Imagine if electricity was not standarized - you'd have to buy into one frequency or another. Then you'd face the same problem as with using BaaS! I say, there…

GCP is kind of a good guy here, pretty much every documentation links to RFC or a standard definition.

Yet also, believing you can standardise everything is a fairytaile. Is your own infra standardised?

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#42

Post by seanwilson »

scaryclam wrote: post #33
seanwilson wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I'm old school, but I really hope developers give a serious thought before jumping into this vendor lock-in trap. What vendor lock-in do you mean though? If you're using AWS, Google or Heroku, they all support Node, Python and PHP for instance and have several options for file storage, SQL and NoSQL. Migrating away is always going to be painful (although you can make this easier for yourself with abstractions…

I get the feeling the OP was talking more about things like Firebase than EC2 or Cloud Compute. Of course, GCP and AWS will allow you to do things that lock you in, but as you stated, you don't have to do that to use their other products. The idea that some people are using other companies backend systems to build their own company that completely relies on those systems creeps me out. If I hire a backend developer w…

Sounds like we agree then! I'd rather stick to generic technologies so I can migrate away if needed. If the service being offered gave a big advantage but didn't have any realistic migration paths then I'd be very cautious. All I mean is that between the major cloud providers there's a decent overlap of common services you can use such that the advantages are hard to ignore. I think we're at the stage where doing everything yourself with some generic VPSs or your own machines isn't economical or productive if you value your time in a lot of cases.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#43

Post by holydude »

Seriously people developers are NOT paid for piling up features. I do not even know where to start but this article and I guess the guy representing the company totally failed to understand few concepts here and there.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#44

Post by m1keil »

sigh

Disclaimer: I'm an ops guy (technically SRE by job title).

There's so much more to Operations than just running pure infrastructure. It's not only about bare metal and application server configuration or maintaining your CI/CD pipeline.

Data life-cycle (backups), capacity planning, incident management, monitoring and KPIs are just some of the items from the top of my head.

I'm not saying that developers can't do that, it's just... if they do, they are doing Operations and you effectively have Ops in your organisation.

Ops is not only about installing and managing LAMP stacks..

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#45

Post by dzhiurgis »

scaryclam wrote: post #33
seanwilson wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I'm old school, but I really hope developers give a serious thought before jumping into this vendor lock-in trap. What vendor lock-in do you mean though? If you're using AWS, Google or Heroku, they all support Node, Python and PHP for instance and have several options for file storage, SQL and NoSQL. Migrating away is always going to be painful (although you can make this easier for yourself with abstractions…

I get the feeling the OP was talking more about things like Firebase than EC2 or Cloud Compute. Of course, GCP and AWS will allow you to do things that lock you in, but as you stated, you don't have to do that to use their other products. The idea that some people are using other companies backend systems to build their own company that completely relies on those systems creeps me out. If I hire a backend developer w…

Salesforce has been running essentially a BaaS for nearly two decades and they show no sign of slowing down.

IMHO their platform is garbage compared to something like Firebase, but no businesses seem to be worried about portability. In fact most are doubling down on building teams to build and support Salesforce.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#46

Post by user5994461 »

mcherm wrote: post #40
chii wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it basically puts your company product under someone else's rules, and if those rules changes or worse, if these companies go bankrupt, migrating to another system could be the death of your product as well. This is basically where standards has to come in. Imagine if electricity was not standarized - you'd have to buy into one frequency or another. Then you'd face the same problem as with using BaaS! I say, there…

> Imagine if electricity was not standarized - you'd have to buy into one frequency or another. Then you'd face the same problem as with using BaaS! Ever tried traveling around the world (or even just around Europe) with an electric device? Now... once you picked up an adapter at the hardware store, how difficult was it? "Not much of a problem" for most folks, somewhere between "a moderate pain" and "ruined my device…

A lot of power supplies are strictly 110V or 230V. They will fry when plugged in a different country, with the adapter.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#47

Post by gregatragenet3 »

My favorite example of a NoOps organization https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/6ez8ag/a... . Now also a NoDatabase organization heading towards NoCustomers. Having some ops guy in the loop is like having insurance against a class of easily avoidable but company ending/maiming mistakes.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#48

Post by mdekkers »

NoOps means that application developers will never have to speak with an operations professional again.

Unless is is the middle of the night and your site is down. Then you really want to be able to talk to an operations professions. Idiots.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#49

Post by johnpython »

If you think being a "software engineer" means you only write code and ops/security is none of your concern, you are terrible. The best software engineers understand the importance of operations and security for the code they release to production.
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