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We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

news.nationalgeographic.com

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Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#41

Post by mattmcknight »

jackfoxy wrote: post #33
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

I never felt very good about running until I got Vibrams in my early 50s. They have steadily improved the shoe, but I think it could stand to have some more shock absorption in the ball of the foot area, where you land. The other unnatural thing we do is run on concrete and tarmac pavement. We also did not evolve to run on such hard surfaces for such great lengths. There are not too many places in the world where you…

The Newton running shoes are made for forefoot running, and more or less force that running style. Worth a try.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#42

Post by noir_lord »

will_brown wrote: post #23

Another recently published running book is about "The Raven" a streak runner running 8 miles everyday for over 42 years. 125,000 miles; 5x around the earth; to the moon and back. I'm lucky enough to live in Miami and run with him sometimes. When he started the streak he went barefoot and later began wearing shoes, if you can call them that, his favorite are NB with about 2,500 miles on them that seem to have more hol…

Moon is ~239,000 miles away.

125,000 is about halfway.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#43

Post by devdad »

Asooka wrote: post #35
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

Don't you lose about 1/3rd of your stride when you strive to land on the front of your foot as opposed to the heel? Doing heel first lets me put my leg way in front of me as I land on it, then roll over it and push forward once my foot is directly under my body, like a spring. This means longer, more powerful strides. To land on the front of the foot, my leg would have to be very close to my body, meaning shorter, qu…

Yes, many more and shorter stride is the way to go. A good way to get into it naturally is joining a trailrunning group. (I'd recommend buying a pair of inov8 for the trails, but that's another topic.)

Edit: Anecdotally, I know a bunch of really great runners and they all have a strike where they land on the ball of the foot.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#44

Post by xaduha »

will_brown wrote: post #23

Another recently published running book is about "The Raven" a streak runner running 8 miles everyday for over 42 years. 125,000 miles; 5x around the earth; to the moon and back. I'm lucky enough to live in Miami and run with him sometimes. When he started the streak he went barefoot and later began wearing shoes, if you can call them that, his favorite are NB with about 2,500 miles on them that seem to have more hol…

> 8 miles everyday for over 42 years. 125,000 miles; 5x around the earth; to the moon and back.

Huh?

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#45

Post by ak217 »

WalterSear wrote: post #11
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

I've been running recreationally since high school, I average about 20 miles/week, an even mix of road/trail. I'm also a bit heavier than a typical avid recreational runner, putting more stress on my legs and feet.

Having gone through a variety of shoes, I'd like to caution people about the minimalistic shoe trend, especially if you run mostly on pavement. It's true that overly cushioned shoes can cause heel strike and poor form. But switching to ultralight shoes can cause much worse problems. Ultralights provide little/no lateral/pronation support, increase exposure to rolling and road hazards due to the more flexible sole, more easily pinch nerves and ligaments on the top of the foot, and make it harder to relax your leg muscles (increasing the likelihood of irritated ligaments and cramped muscles).

If ultralight shoes work for you, that's great. But if you're a casual runner, I would urge you to visit a good running store that analyzes your gait, and try on a variety of models. Many shoe makers assume a particular shape of foot. You need to try a number of shoes to see which ones fit you best. Don't try to pick the most or least cushioned shoe based on some mantra you've heard.

Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's impossible to finish the liftoff from the heel while running. You can talk about the angle at which most of the liftoff force is delivered, or whether the heel descends to contact the ground at all (vs. running on your toes), but you don't push off with your heel while running.

P.S. The biggest improvements to my running (aside from switching from ultralight back to stability shoes) came from joining a running club, and from buying a Garmin GPS watch and tracking my workouts against my friends from the club on Strava. So the only premise in the article that I agree with is that treadmills are silly :)

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#46

Post by rosser »

WalterSear wrote: post #24
e12e wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have some more information on this? Are you talking about running on paved road, or in (rough) terrain? I admit I have some difficulty visualizing how you combine landing on the ball of your foot with pushing off with the heel (so I at least agree that it doesn't feel natural :-).

I'm definitely no expert, I'm afraid. Perhaps others can chime in. But notice how, in this gif, the maximum force is applied just as the heel starts to lift: https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-05-2014/hQcYHP.gif I think it's hard to imagine in part because it involves such a radical shift in the center of gravity, bringing the body over the knee, so the foot can act as a springy lever, minimizing the impact of your heel…

It might be clearer phrased as pushing through the heel, instead of off it. Or maybe that just makes it worse. It's a bit in the vein of riding a bike: you can't very easily explain it to someone who's never done it; with sufficient practice, the right neurons will just start hanging out together at some point and then it's pretty much automatic.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#47

Post by rosser »

ak217 wrote: post #45
WalterSear wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

I've been running recreationally since high school, I average about 20 miles/week, an even mix of road/trail. I'm also a bit heavier than a typical avid recreational runner, putting more stress on my legs and feet. Having gone through a variety of shoes, I'd like to caution people about the minimalistic shoe trend, especially if you run mostly on pavement. It's true that overly cushioned shoes can cause heel strike a…

> Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing.

It's imprecise language, to be sure. I think it's more about where you're concentrating the force. If you look at the .gif that 'WalterSear shared down-thread, you'll see that the greatest force is just before the heel lifts, not after.

That's the difference, I think, between "pushing off" with the heel or the forefoot: where, specifically, in the stride the maximum force is applied.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#49

Post by WalterSear »

ak217 wrote: post #45
WalterSear wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

I've been running recreationally since high school, I average about 20 miles/week, an even mix of road/trail. I'm also a bit heavier than a typical avid recreational runner, putting more stress on my legs and feet. Having gone through a variety of shoes, I'd like to caution people about the minimalistic shoe trend, especially if you run mostly on pavement. It's true that overly cushioned shoes can cause heel strike a…

>Also, "pushing off with your heel" is not a thing. It's impossible to finish the liftoff from the heel while running.

So what is going on in this picture?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-05-2014/hQcYHP.gif

I see the maximum force being applied just as the heel leaves the ground. Maybe the maxima is >just< slightly after, but the heel is still involved.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#50

Post by goatlover »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #5
dingdongding wrote: post #2

The title says "We're doing it all wrong", but after reading the article it hardly says much about what we are doing wrong. The only wrong it talks about is treadmill and that's it.

Well, he's sorta a zealot for the cult of barefoot running, and that running for everything other than meditation is horrible.

Sounds a tad extremist.
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