$3 billion in subsidies for 3,000 jobs. http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/07/26/scott-walker-h...
At this price is Foxconn actually investing anything or is it all taxpayer financed?
Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
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Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
#42$3 billion in subsidies for 3,000 jobs. http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/07/26/scott-walker-h...
The subsidy is $1.5B for 13,000 jobs. The other half of the subsidy is for capital investment and construction expenses. It's still a huge number though.
The article states that: "At $3 billion for 13,000 jobs, the Wisconsin deal would cost $231,000 per job."
By comparison, economists have estimated $125K/job-year to $202K/job-year from the 2009 stimulus (ARRA). [1]
[1] https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/revie... , page 3
Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "late stage capitalism" What does this even mean? Sounds like an activist buzzword. What evidence do we have that there are even "stages" to capitalism much less that we are in a later stage?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism Capitalism is showing its flaws if we're paying a million dollars per job just to bring the job to our soil , although I suppose it's better then just keeping Foxconn products (or products that integrate their components) out at ports (or tariff them, like Russia with phones without a GLONASS chipset).
Corporate welfare has existed in every "stage" of capitalism, and the justifications suit the political moods of the day (jobs for one polity, greentech for another). This isn't anything new, and capitalism would be better off without it.
Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is pretty standard for deals like this, Nevada gave Tesla 1.3 billion for the Gigafactory. This "could" draw 3 billion. It's just tax incentives, not like it's a cash payment. But anything to make Trump look bad I guess.
There is essentially no difference between giving a company money and not collecting money from them that they would otherwise pay. Economists call these sorts of things tax expenditures . It amounts to taking money from some people and companies who pay their full tax bill, and giving it to others who don't.
Most of the "incentive" situations are not a choice between those two scenarios, they are a choice between having the business there and giving them an (initial) tax break, or having the business go elsewhere. It's a choice between collecting discounted taxes, or none at all, not discounted vs. non-discounted.
Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
$1,000,000 per job seems like a staggering subsidy.
Seems like it'd be cheaper to just give it away as UBI, no? Especially considering a million dollars for a transient job versus paying someone a million dollars over their lifetime. This whole late stage capitalism transition is going to be painful.
>This whole late stage capitalism transition is going to be painful.
Still preferable to the cannibalism and human rights abuse currently occurring due to late stage socialism in Venezuela.
Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that is the case, then they will deploy robots, use few human supervisors to oversee the work. Don't expect it will bring their giant manufacturers pipeline here. It is not going to be profitable for them. Why, because Chinese people are cheaper, and for manufacturing, meaning assembling, your output is directly associated with your working time, where in China they can force workers to work 12 hours, here no chan…
It might not be cheaper if you think Trump is going to tariff China because of their support of North Korea.
Well lets see. If Trump is still willing to sell more agricultural products to China to narrow down the deficit, he needs to play this nicely.
Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is pretty standard for deals like this, Nevada gave Tesla 1.3 billion for the Gigafactory. This "could" draw 3 billion. It's just tax incentives, not like it's a cash payment. But anything to make Trump look bad I guess.
There is essentially no difference between giving a company money and not collecting money from them that they would otherwise pay. Economists call these sorts of things tax expenditures . It amounts to taking money from some people and companies who pay their full tax bill, and giving it to others who don't.
There's an enormous difference. They wouldn't otherwise pay it because their factory and jobs wouldn't otherwise exist.
Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a made up phrase that's being aggressively astroturfed on misc. parts of the net. reddit.com/r/latestagecapitalism
Every term is made up at some point but "late capitalism" itself isn't a new term[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism
It's not an idea that's worth taking seriously, like everything else from Marx.
Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like it'd be cheaper to just give it away as UBI, no? Especially considering a million dollars for a transient job versus paying someone a million dollars over their lifetime. This whole late stage capitalism transition is going to be painful.
>This whole late stage capitalism transition is going to be painful. The phrase "late stage capitalism" is one I've seen crop up only in the last year or so, and mostly in the context of the subreddit of the same name. Can you recommend some reading outside of that subreddit? I find the subreddit's content narrowminded to the point that I thought it was satire at first, but I'm open to the topic in general. Especiall…
Capital In The Twenty First Century: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00I2WNYJW/
The Economics Of Inequality: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B013HZ8U0G/
Debt: The First 5000 Years: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00Q1HZMCW/
Boomerang: Travels in the New Third World: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005CRQ2OE/
The Global Minotaur: America, the True Origins of the Financial Crisis and the Future of the World Economy: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B010VKP0CQ/
I'm mobile at the moment, but will noodle on further books that I'd consider contributors to the "late stage capitalism" school of thought (IMHO, as an amateur macroeconomic scholar). I am also open to rebuttals!