Liu died and everyone came out to consume his death. I bet no non-chinese here knows what exactly he promoted in his political campaign, including his controversial arguments. Nobel Price committee conveniently ignored his support of invasion of Iraq. Yet the supporters of Chinese govt. forgot the piece got him into jail is, in fact has no contradiction to the Chinese law. He was a flawed man but should've enjoyed a longer life. RIP
Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody
41–48 of 48 posts
Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody
#42For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.
I feel there is nothing wrong with China or its people in general, just like there is nothing wrong with any other country and their people in general... The problem is in their government, and their capability and method of controlling the social resources; and more often than not, the government is quite aggressive toward those who disagree with them.
At some point you need to accept that a government does represent the people.
Not everyone and not all the time but over a sufficiently large time frame it does.
This doesn't mean that Chinese are inherently oppressive it just means that the current cultural construct does heavily lean that way.
There is a reason why you cannot transform a dictatorship into a democracy overnight without heavy and and continous influence. A democracy lives not because of a piece of paper but because the cultural construct of the people supports it. And while it is a chicken and the egg problem at some point that argument becomes irrelevant.
For China to change it will have to change its cultural constructs that allow it to sustain itself as it does today.
Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody
#43Liu died and everyone came out to consume his death. I bet no non-chinese here knows what exactly he promoted in his political campaign, including his controversial arguments. Nobel Price committee conveniently ignored his support of invasion of Iraq. Yet the supporters of Chinese govt. forgot the piece got him into jail is, in fact has no contradiction to the Chinese law. He was a flawed man but should've enjoyed a…
If anyone is interested in learning more about Liu's "controversial arguments", I encourage you to read Charter 08, the document for which he was imprisoned and brutalized:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_08
Original Chinese: http://www.2008xianzhang.info/chinese.htm
English Translation: http://www.hrichina.org/en/content/238
Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
...except threatening Taiwan with war? And ask the people in Tibet and (some) in Hongkong.
As far as I know, all the places you mentioned are either Chinese territory or disputed Chinese territory. All of them are recognized by most countries (most likely including yours) as part of China. Can you name a sovereign state recognized globally that is being threatened by China militarily?
I don't think popular belief thought that Tibet was part of China, and I think some would be surprised to hear that Tibet is merely a territory, free for settling. China is free to rename the territory without fanfare if it wishes, just as it has already dismantled the inconvenient Dalai Lama Buddhist institution.
The only reason why China hasn't rolled tanks into Taiwan is because of logistical or political inconvenience, otherwise China could treat Taiwan just the same as Tibet.
Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
A minuscule proportion of the population knows about him. My WeChat feed is utterly unrepresentative of Chinese society at large.
I really want to agree with your projection. However, your only data is contradicting it. Until you have more data, it would remain an assertion.
> it would remain an assertion.
Yes it would.
Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel there is nothing wrong with China or its people in general, just like there is nothing wrong with any other country and their people in general... The problem is in their government, and their capability and method of controlling the social resources; and more often than not, the government is quite aggressive toward those who disagree with them.
At some point you need to accept that a government does represent the people. Not everyone and not all the time but over a sufficiently large time frame it does. This doesn't mean that Chinese are inherently oppressive it just means that the current cultural construct does heavily lean that way. There is a reason why you cannot transform a dictatorship into a democracy overnight without heavy and and continous influe…
Yes, I agree...And some people, from both inside and outside the country, consider that perhaps a period of Enlightenment would really transform the current culture there.
But I feel that given the current style of the Chinese government, it does not seem that there is much space for its people to develop any democratic or Enlightenment culture -- and from a perspective of statistics, a true and just and honest democratic society is more stable, both internally and externally, than an autocratic one -- and more likely to benefit a wider range of people.
Yet this is not the fault of any average Chinese...It is just that, at several critical moments in its history, some overly self-centered and overly biased leaders caused tremendous damages -- with all its ruinous and poisonous ramifications -- to the entire society. Had it been more democratic then, such damages would be unlikely to have ever happened...But the assumption of that necessity leads to the chicken or the egg dilemma...
Or perhaps the history -- and its consequential reality -- is quite fortuitous in nature...
Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody
#47Dear greedy elites, Stop manufacturing in Communist China.
Much like countries with 'Democratic' in their name, the only thing that's communist about China is the name of the ruling party.
Re: Liu Xiaobo, Nobel laureate and political prisoner, dies at 61 in Chinese custody
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The US kills people for being poor and/or black. The United States does not kill people for being poor and black. Poor black people kill poor black people for being poor and black. Overwhelmingly so; ask anyone who keeps or audits vital statistics. You can stand around saying that there is some historical basis for this cultural problem, but telling people that whitey is keeping them down is a sure way not to solve…
> Poor black people kill poor black people for being poor and black. White people mostly kill white people, for the same reasons - crimes tend to be committed in the perpetrators' own communities. This little dog whistle tidbit of "black-on-black crime" people trot out is mainly an indication of how segregated American society still is.
The thing is, White people kill white people in America at about the same rate as they do in Western Europe. As a white person, I am happy with the amount of attention paid to preventing other white people from killing me.
I would like the overall statistic to come down to match, and I think that starts with eliminating variables and finding common threads in how these murders occur. One thread that seems high on the list of suspects is the war on drugs.
Personally I would abolish it entirely. Not only should all drugs be legal to possess and use, they should be legal to produce and sell without tremendous additional tax (to prevent another de-facto black market, like illicit grain alcohol and native reservation cigarette smuggling).