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Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

where.coraline.codes

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Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#41

Post by faizmokhtar »

ivraatiems wrote: post #10
sethrin wrote: post #6

Am I reading this correctly? Fired for lack of empathetic communication? Is that really a thing?

What's most interesting is that "empathetic communication" is generally not prioritized in software development environments, in favor of exactly the kind of polite-but-direct communication the author employs. (In fact, many feel that even politeness is unnecessary or harmful. For instance, Linus Torvalds' and other OSS developers are known and regularly praised for their bluntness.) I've spoken out often on HN about…

How is it sexism when the one who reported her and the manager herself is a female employee?

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#42

Post by vdnkh »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #13

While GitHub seemingly handled her employment poorly, this person sounds horrible to work with: >Was politely calling out a data scientist on a problematic and transphobic survey answer a demonstration of lack of empathy? How presumptuous. Ever thought that maybe the person putting it together didn't know any better? What does framing oneself as the victim accomplish here? In addition, this is hilariously ironic give…

This was also the line that stuck out to me. I've had some personal experiences with coworkers in my recent career that has turned me on to issues of harassment in the workplace; I understood the issues before, but it wasn't until it affected someone close did I actually care. As I've been more involved I've seen how fast those active in making workplaces safer/more inclusive outpace those who merely empathize and understand. It's unfair and rude to assign a label to those who aren't completely up-to-date with these new practices, and is in fact counterproductive - you turn off to those whose support you want when you speak down to them as such. This is what makes people afraid of what to say, and makes you look like a "crazy liberal SJW". Calling a survey maker who didn't know "transgender" wasn't a gender is an objective lack of empathy, which makes Github here sound like they really have a point.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#43

Post by [deleted] »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #13

While GitHub seemingly handled her employment poorly, this person sounds horrible to work with: >Was politely calling out a data scientist on a problematic and transphobic survey answer a demonstration of lack of empathy? How presumptuous. Ever thought that maybe the person putting it together didn't know any better? What does framing oneself as the victim accomplish here? In addition, this is hilariously ironic give…

[deleted]

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#45

Post by Dirlewanger »

ivraatiems wrote: post #23
Dirlewanger wrote: post #13

While GitHub seemingly handled her employment poorly, this person sounds horrible to work with: >Was politely calling out a data scientist on a problematic and transphobic survey answer a demonstration of lack of empathy? How presumptuous. Ever thought that maybe the person putting it together didn't know any better? What does framing oneself as the victim accomplish here? In addition, this is hilariously ironic give…

Do you think this person is unusual in her communication style? She posted the complete text of the "problem" comment. If you got that message from a colleague, would you consider it unacceptable? Why or why not? If yes, what could she have said that would have made it OK? How would you answer her core question of whether or not the comment she made is appropriate?

I'm disgusted at her reflection that the question was transphobic, not that she commented on the difference. Whether the data scientist overreacted or not is irrelevant.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#46

Post by dsr_ »

" The next day I got an urgent request for a call with my manager. She told me that the data scientist who had written the survey questions was very upset and had gone to her manager to complain about me. I asked my manager what had happened to upset her and was told that it was the feedback I provided on the gender question. I read back to her the body of the issue that I had opened and asked what I should have done differently. She responded that she didn't know, that my wording seemed direct but non-confrontational, but that I was forbidden to interact any further with the author of the survey."

If your company ever communicates this badly to you, it's time to question whether this company can be fixed.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#47

Post by mattbillenstein »

If you're ever put on a PIP, get out -- it's a sign someone in the company doesn't want you there.

I've never heard of a PIP working out and both the company and employee being happy -- maybe you only hear about the bad cases, but a PIP often seems to me like a cover your ass plan on the part of the company. They want to get rid of a person, but they're afraid of getting sued, so a PIP is a way to document why a person was fired in the case of litigation.

This practice seems pretty common in California, but given California is an at-will employment state, I'm not even sure why.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#48

Post by emodendroket »

giggles_giggles wrote: post #18

"I was well aware of GitHub's very problematic past, from its promotion of meritocracy in place of a management system" This person mentions multiple times that meritocracy is a bad idea, that promotion or reward based on merit should be done away with in order to promote diversity, e.g., racial/gender-based quotas. This is a person who does not view competence as the primary trait to select for within a market, and…

It seems they were looking to hire someone specifically to reach out to people who care about these distinctions, though. They can't really be surprised at what they got.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#49

Post by opportune »

The main thing I've taken away from the whole github situation is that, as a tech company, you should just entirely stay away from public involvement in the social justice sphere. That doesn't mean exclusively hiring white men and sending out Kalanick-style emails; it means keeping your work environment as professional and politically neutral as possible unless absolutely necessary.

My employer does a good job of this. We have a lot of women and transgender (not so many POC) employees, but we don't have any special inclusivity initiatives or outreach programs, nor do we officially inject any related ideology into the businessplace. The expectation is that you conduct yourself professionally, and that you exercise your own discretion; the other side of the coin is that you correct what you might think is morally/terminologically wrong (such as confusing biological sex with gender) as diplomatically and non-confrontationally as possible; assume mistakes are honest and be polite in correcting them.

As for Coraline herself, I would be skeptical that we are getting the full story here. In particular, I'm sure there is more to the "non-empathetic communication style" than the data scientist and other related incidents. Not to be a presumptive asshole, but I do get the impression from this kind of expose that she might be difficult to work with.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#50

Post by ivraatiems »

faizmokhtar wrote: post #41
ivraatiems wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's most interesting is that "empathetic communication" is generally not prioritized in software development environments, in favor of exactly the kind of polite-but-direct communication the author employs. (In fact, many feel that even politeness is unnecessary or harmful. For instance, Linus Torvalds' and other OSS developers are known and regularly praised for their bluntness.) I've spoken out often on HN about…

How is it sexism when the one who reported her and the manager herself is a female employee?

It's completely possible for a woman to behave in a sexist way towards another woman. There's an argument about whether one can be sexist against men (or racist against white people, etc.) that has to do with how the terms are defined, but I don't think that applies here.
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