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Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

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Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#41

Post by mikeash »

jonknee wrote: post #23

It's arriving Friday and they still haven't released official photos of the interior nor have any options configurations. Really odd way to launch a vehicle. https://www.tesla.com/model3

The very first car comes off the line on Friday. The first deliveries are at the end of the month. First deliveries to the general public (i.e. not employees or specially chosen VIP customers) are still a couple of months out.

This is how they did the Model X. They had a reveal event, and at the end of that event they delivered the first six units on stage. Mere mortals didn't start getting theirs until quite a bit later.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#42

Post by rgbrenner »

giobox wrote: post #32
FireBeyond wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're downvoted, you're right. Tesla S starts at $57K. - Mercedes S starts at $97K - Panamera starts at $86K - 6/7 series start at $81K/$83K. You're right, you're looking at mid-range Audis and the like. But having been in a 2016 S and several Audis the interior quality is hugely different. The Audi feels great, and the S felt like my eight year old Altima. I don't want to sound like a hater - the Tesla…

It depends which Model S you buy though. It's possible to spec one well north of 100k (isn't a P100D around 140ish?), at which point comparisons to S-classes and 7 series and so on surely must cross the minds of some buyers. I completely agree regarding cabin quality though.

Looking at the price range just reinforces that they're not in the same class:

Telsa S: $57-140k

Mercedes S-Class: $97-226k

That's a 70% increase at the bottom and 60% at the top.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#43

Post by mikeash »

Roritharr wrote: post #13

I really wonder how the top-speed is on those cars in their various configurations. For me this is the deal breaker on all other "affordable" solutions thus far.

We should find out at the end of the month, but I'd be surprised if it was much lower than the 130MPH top speed of the slowest Model S. (Ignoring the 40, which was an outlier in many ways.)

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#44

Post by illumin8 »

narrowtux wrote: post #20
jjallen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top-speed is really a prime concern for choosing your car? Interesting. Do you live in a no-speed-limit jurisdiction, such as Germany?

I do live in Germany, and it is a concern for me. The VW e-up costs 22k EUR and has a top speed of 130 km/h, the BMW i3 full electric version w/o range extender costs about 35k EUR and has a top speed of 150 km/h. This performance would be fine if I bought a car under 10k EUR but not for this price.

I have an i3. The top speed is fine; I can do 90mph here in the US, but you probably don't want to. Driving an EV you start to realize how much energy it takes to maintain high speeds, due to wind resistance. I can drive a full 100 miles on a charge at 75mph, but if I tried to drive the same distance at 90mph, I'd probably only get 60 miles. Wind resistance makes a huge difference to EVs.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#45

Post by zippergz »

Robotbeat wrote: post #25
jacquesm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla’s Model S outsells Mercedes S-Class, Porsche Panamera, and BMW 6/7 Series combined in the US Those cars are not even in the same class, of course Tesla would outsell them. Compare sales of the model S in Germany with the C class, BMW 3 (or maybe the 5) and just forget about Porsche. Other cars you could compare it with are larger sedans of the premium variety Japanese manufacturers (Toyota -> Lexus, Nissan ->…

And yet, by all appearances, the Model S /is/ cutting into S-class sales. Whether the experience is exactly the same or not is irrelevant. If you're a luxury car maker, you're already feeling this; it's not a hypothetical.

I'd be very curious to see actual data about this. I'm not sure one way or the other. Most of the Model S owners I know are people who previously would not have considered buying a car in that price range, so they weren't really potential S Class customers. It's amazing to me how many friends who used to drive Toyotas or at most low-end BMWs and Audis are now spending nearly $100K to get a Tesla. At the same time, the people I know who have cars like the S Class or 7 Series tend to value their refinement and interior quality, which the Model S doesn't really match yet. It doesn't seem like many of them have made the switch (a few have a Model S as an additional car rather than a replacement).

In my world it seems like Tesla has successfully brought a bunch of new buyers to a higher price point, without seriously tempting many of the people who were already buying in that price range. But obviously this is just based on anecdotes and my limited view of the world. So I'd love to see real data about who is buying these cars, and how many of them would have otherwise bought something like an S Class.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#46

Post by k3oni »

jonknee wrote: post #23

It's arriving Friday and they still haven't released official photos of the interior nor have any options configurations. Really odd way to launch a vehicle. https://www.tesla.com/model3

The first model 3's won't have any extra options, Musk made that clear a while ago by discussing the wrong release of the X with too many options that ended up backing up the deliveries.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#47

Post by Someone »

Jakob wrote: post #35
jacquesm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any car I've ever owned has spent more than a minute or two at its top rated speed. Even acceleration is only important up to a minimum to get along in traffic. Even in Germany where cars are allowed to go pretty quick in some areas hardly any of them go at or near their rated top speed.

This is a little different for electric cars, though. Have a look at their current top speeds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electric_cars_currentl... Many max out at only ~130 km/h (~80 mph), most don’t reach 150 km/h (90 mph). The models described in the wiki table are also the maximum power versions of those cars. There are lower versions which don’t even get to this velocity.

I don't think that matters much. 130km/hour is enough for top speed in most countries. With gasoline powered cars you simply need a higher top speed if you want the ability to swiftly accelerate to that 130km/hour.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#48

Post by jacquesm »

Jakob wrote: post #35
jacquesm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any car I've ever owned has spent more than a minute or two at its top rated speed. Even acceleration is only important up to a minimum to get along in traffic. Even in Germany where cars are allowed to go pretty quick in some areas hardly any of them go at or near their rated top speed.

This is a little different for electric cars, though. Have a look at their current top speeds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electric_cars_currentl... Many max out at only ~130 km/h (~80 mph), most don’t reach 150 km/h (90 mph). The models described in the wiki table are also the maximum power versions of those cars. There are lower versions which don’t even get to this velocity.

130 is the maximum speed in most countries, Germany excepted in Europe, in most states in the US it's 55 Mph, 70 or 85 (Texas, the exception), so only in Texas or Germany would you run into the situation where your car can't go the legal limit, but it is still more than capable of achieving the minimum speed, and in fact that speed at which the vast majority of the traffic moves.

Slower than 130 km/h would be a problem.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#49

Post by kgwgk »

nardi wrote: post #34
jacquesm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla’s Model S outsells Mercedes S-Class, Porsche Panamera, and BMW 6/7 Series combined in the US Those cars are not even in the same class, of course Tesla would outsell them. Compare sales of the model S in Germany with the C class, BMW 3 (or maybe the 5) and just forget about Porsche. Other cars you could compare it with are larger sedans of the premium variety Japanese manufacturers (Toyota -> Lexus, Nissan ->…

Seems much closer in price to your parent's list than your list, though the reality is it's somewhere in the middle: 3 Series - $33,450 (-34,550) C Class - $39,500 (-28,500) 5 Series - $51,200 (-16,800) Model S - $68,000 6 Series - $77,600 (+9,600) Porsche Panamera - $78,100 (+10,100) 7 Series - $81,500 (+13,500) S Class - $96,600 (+28,600) Edit: With the US federal tax credit of $7,500, it comes down closer to the b…

Being competitors is not just a question of price. How many people buying a Tesla have considered buying a Mercedes S Class? How many people buying a Mercedes S Class have considered buying a Tesla?

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#50

Post by jacquesm »

maxxxxx wrote: post #29
narrowtux wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, because it takes long to actually get to that speed. But imagine if you'd like to drive 160 km/h on the highway all the time, you probably need a car that has a rated top speed of at least 180 km/h.

Most of the (gas engine) cars sold today can go 180.

Most of the high end cars will go 225 or 249 (legal limit enforced by the engine firmware, also related to what the tires the car is sold standard with can handle).

A small car doing 180 will not live long.

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