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Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

nytimes.com

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Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#41

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

nradov wrote: post #38
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is doing what is best for it's customers. But is it? Because right now I basically can't stop using Google services at this point because they pushed out many others from the market. I would however greatly prefer some competition in the field.

Which Google services no longer have competition?

Google Search for a start. Youtube is effectively standing alone in the space. Google Maps is completely dominating the space (in particular there is nothing that replaces the Earth product or the parts of Earth in maps).

Gmail is taking over the world over here. Most local mail solutions are irrelevant at this point and the only real alternative to gmail even intentionally is outlook now.

Chrome effectively took out the rest of the bunch as well, at least on desktop and Android.

Lastly Google's ad business is something nobody can avoid.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#42

Post by scurvy »

x0x0 wrote: post #7
wannabe_miner wrote: post #4

Unrelated but related, what is it like to work at Yelp? I was recently contacted by them for a position but it didn't inspire confidence. The mention of a "shoestring operation" in this article is making me believe I made the right choice.

It depends on position. They treat CSRs like absolute shit -- see Talia Jane. Given a choice, I'd prefer not to work for companies that treat any employee like that.

Curious, but is there any company that treats CSR's really well and have a 85%+ employee satisfaction?

I've worked at a lot of great companies, and the CSR groups are always unhappy and have miserable employee satisfaction ratings. I also started my career in customer service, so I've seen good and bad firsthand.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#43

Post by Buge »

mcguire wrote: post #17
wannabe_miner wrote: post #4

Unrelated but related, what is it like to work at Yelp? I was recently contacted by them for a position but it didn't inspire confidence. The mention of a "shoestring operation" in this article is making me believe I made the right choice.

Isn't Yelp the company that hosts reviews of local businesses while at the same time getting paid for advertising by those businesses?

Same with Google right?

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#44

Post by kefka »

keymone wrote: post #35
kefka wrote: post #16

Indeed, Google is too big and has a massive effect on the Internet across the whole world. A single capricious decision made by Google/Alphabet can cause dozens of businesses to shutter or fail. And that is a big problem, especially if we care about upstarts and new companies. However, that responsibility they fail to take in consideration except by lawsuit, does not counteract YELP's BaaS - Blackmail as a Service. T…

> have been known to, time and again, to shake down companies do you have any evidence of this?

http://nypost.com/2014/10/13/restaurant-fights-yelps-alleged...

Restaurant tells everyone to leave bad ratings, because good ratings are hidden since they didn't pay extortion.

-----------------------------

https://www.reddit.com/r/food/comments/zdq0f/yelp_is_blackma...

Yelp "makes 4-5 star reviews go away" when restaurant refuses to pay extortion.

-----------------------------

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/inside-yelps-blackmail-lawsuit-c...

Stoppelman says that businesses want to control their reputation, and Yelp's position is to charge for that. Question here is, if money means hiding bad reviews, is that extortion? Sure seems so.

-----------------------------

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericgoldman/2014/09/03/court-sa...

The courts said that "Pay to Play" isn't strictly extortion. And claims that Yelp themselves wrote bad reviews were unsubstantiated (no proof, server logs can be a 'tricksy' thing....).

-----------------------------

https://www.cnet.com/news/to-mock-yelp-restaurant-asks-custo...

This has gotten bad enough, that businesses are telling customers to seed YELP with good "Bad reviews".

-----------------------------

Seriously, when they call, and you fail to pay, your page on YELP goes to the toilet. How much "proof" do you need? There seems to be a misdirection by blaming 3rd party customers, but seriously. They're using blackmail as their market strategy.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#45

Post by kailuowang »

I found that Yelp's reviews very unreliable. My business owner friends told me that they are constantly harassed by yelp's sales representatives to buy the right to "clean up" their reviews. I don't see how yelp can continue trash their brand like this and blaming Google for their low performance.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#46

Post by benchaney »

falsedan wrote: post #40
benchaney wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite is actually true. If you are being slandered on yelp you cannot just choose for it to end. On the other hand you can use another search engine or advertising firm without any problems.

I don’t get it: which search engines?

Bing, Yahoo, or Duck Duck Go.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#47

Post by nradov »

putlake wrote: post #21
redm wrote: post #9

"Mr. Stoppelman feels he has no choice. Like a lot of small internet companies, Yelp lives in a world where one company, Google, accounts for an outsize share of its business, and could destroy it at any time." That sums it up for Yelp and many others, myself included. Combine that reality with the black box that Google is, in many ways, and you have an inaccessible behemoth who's decisions decide the fate of many. G…

I agree. As a web publisher who depends on advertising for revenue and Google for traffic, things are getting more and more difficult. Google providing answers in the search box robs legitimate publishers of traffic. But the industry is so fragmented that a concerted legal action against Google is not possible. Since this is HN, I expect people are going to start chanting "Die you ad supported publishers or find a ne…

Web publishers have gotten lazy. Instead of becoming more dependant on Google and then complaining about being marginalized they should put more effort into marketing directly to their target audience and finding non-advertising revenue models.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#48

Post by SwellJoe »

baddox wrote: post #37
haltingthoughts wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at what is best for consumers is missing the point. The point is that when companies use leverage in one market to help themselves or hurt competitors unfairly in other markets it stifles competition. It's hard to be a web browser company when it comes bundled with the OS. Do you really want a world where you choose Apple, Google, or Amazon once for everything everywhere and that is the only choice you get? O…

Isn't stifling competition only bad if it harms consumers? I don't understand how what's best for consumers isn't the point.

As long as there is credible competition, market forces work. When Google (or MS, or Amazon, or...) successfully destroy all of their competition, that's when consumers suffer, and that's when it's too late for regulators to effectively solve the problem. See the cable/telco duopolies for an example of that problem in action.

So, sure. The fight to destroy all competitors is good for consumers while it lasts. Once it's over and there's a monopoly or cartel (as in the case of last-mile internet), the consumer is at the mercy of the monopolist. History indicates the monopolist will not be benevolent.

History also indicates the monopolist will leverage their increased power to manipulate the legal environment to prevent new competitors from springing up. In addition to the telcos, the fossil fuel industry is an example of that lately; despite renewables being cheaper and creating more jobs, more than half of our elected officials in the US are working hard to ensure another decade of fossil fuel energy dominance.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#49

Post by nradov »

cft wrote: post #20
redm wrote: post #9

"Mr. Stoppelman feels he has no choice. Like a lot of small internet companies, Yelp lives in a world where one company, Google, accounts for an outsize share of its business, and could destroy it at any time." That sums it up for Yelp and many others, myself included. Combine that reality with the black box that Google is, in many ways, and you have an inaccessible behemoth who's decisions decide the fate of many. G…

Just like it was impossible to start a car company after say 1920 due to the established players, it has become impossible to start and run a large consumer internet company where the primary function is information retrieval/search like in Yelp. If Google maps did not exist (with "Local Guides" now), Yelp's market cap could have been 5x of what it is. They were lucky that they started in 2004 when Google bombing was…

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic? Several car companies operating today were founded after 1920.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#50

Post by haltingthoughts »

baddox wrote: post #37
haltingthoughts wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at what is best for consumers is missing the point. The point is that when companies use leverage in one market to help themselves or hurt competitors unfairly in other markets it stifles competition. It's hard to be a web browser company when it comes bundled with the OS. Do you really want a world where you choose Apple, Google, or Amazon once for everything everywhere and that is the only choice you get? O…

Isn't stifling competition only bad if it harms consumers? I don't understand how what's best for consumers isn't the point.

I should have said looking at whether it is harming consumers now isn't the point. It's how it harms consumers over time. The chilling effect on innovation, the monoculture/fragility, the lock-in will hurt consumers in the long run.
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