Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

hackernoon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 75 posts

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#41

Post by mamon »

taway_1212 wrote: post #30
mamon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my case: working as a niche IT specialist I earn about 4500 USD per month after taxes. It might not be much by SV standards, but in my neighborhood (which is a capital city of one of CE countries) it is top 2% income. It's enough that after maybe 5 years of saving I'm now able to buy 1 bedroom apartment in the city center WITH CASH. Buying 2-3 bedrooms would also be possible if I needed it and decided…

8500 USD after taxes here :) (in Poland) I spend around $1000 per month of that.

I never thought such kind of money is possible in Poland, except in one shitty company that shall remain unnamed here. Could you tell what do you do to earn such a salary ?

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#42

Post by taway_1212 »

mamon wrote: post #41
taway_1212 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8500 USD after taxes here :) (in Poland) I spend around $1000 per month of that.

I never thought such kind of money is possible in Poland, except in one shitty company that shall remain unnamed here. Could you tell what do you do to earn such a salary ?

One was a remote job at a SV startup and now I'm making pretty much the same in an in-office job in an international corp. I filled a niche they badly needed to fill (it's not like I'm some unicorn though) hence the unusally high pay.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#43

Post by taway_1212 »

galfarragem wrote: post #38
taway_1212 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8500 USD after taxes here :) (in Poland) I spend around $1000 per month of that.

Be thankful, you might probably afford the best living standards that is possible to afford as an employee... worldwide. I was an expat in Poland for some years (unfortunately non-STEM job) and with that money your only limit is yourself.

My plan is to retire in 5-7 years. I could do that sooner if I went into stock market (and prayed that the mythical 4% per year returns will be sustainable in the future) or became a landlord, but I prefer to play it safe.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#44

Post by kornakiewicz »

taway_1212 wrote: post #30
mamon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my case: working as a niche IT specialist I earn about 4500 USD per month after taxes. It might not be much by SV standards, but in my neighborhood (which is a capital city of one of CE countries) it is top 2% income. It's enough that after maybe 5 years of saving I'm now able to buy 1 bedroom apartment in the city center WITH CASH. Buying 2-3 bedrooms would also be possible if I needed it and decided…

8500 USD after taxes here :) (in Poland) I spend around $1000 per month of that.

For all, be aware that this kind of money are extremely rare (but doable in some niches) in Poland. Half of that is generally perceived as very good salary for most IT jobs, and median is probably quarter of that.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#45

Post by vldx »

Eastern Europe is state of mind, not a geographical location.

It just boggles my mind why a young person (like the article author) would choose to think in such a lazy manner and beat that narrative to death -- corruption, local economy, the struggle to run legitimate business, etc.

With all due my respect and w/ the risk of being downvoted -- that is BS; and completely opposite of the SV mindset.

It just shows that the author haven't been exposed to the actual environment (i.e. not the university) in Bulgaria -- there are numerous large-scale companies w/ strong regional presence, as well various small outsourcing shops and at least 5 co-working spaces, where you can find lots of very capable people working in very healthy environments; anecdotally, for the last ~13 years I haven't heard even one founder/c-level exec of being asked to pay anything under the table.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#46

Post by saiya-jin »

Kaizeras wrote: post #12
paganel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends, there are quite a number of exceptions. Yeah, if you're going to get yourself into a farm-like outsourcing company as a fresh CS graduate then you'll have a pretty numb programming life in front of you. But there are also lots of start-ups/small companies which do really interesting stuff (some of them have been acquired by Western companies for quite a lot of money or have grown into "middle" companies).…

> But, yeah, Eastern Europe (and Europe in general, with the possible exceptions of London, Berlin and maybe Dublin) will never get even close to the "feeling" one gets as a programmer in SV That's exactly the thought that hits me every morning I wake up. That "feeling" that you're in the right place and in the right time to build some truly revolutionary technology. I hope that I start getting this feeling here, in…

I am sorry to burst your bubble but you are looking at SV in very rosy glasses. Most people in SV are not making any more significant work than elsewhere. Plus you have tons of non-SV companies making big impacts, be it rest of US or elsewhere. Read on accommodation & transport & immigration issues if that's not enough.

If you hate where you are and what you do, do a change by all means. But do an informed change, not naive emotional one.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#47

Post by saiya-jin »

mamon wrote: post #25
galfarragem wrote: post #4

Fortune cookie: a niche IT job in Eastern Europe will, with high probability, grant you the best life standards available worldwide.

That's exactly my case: working as a niche IT specialist I earn about 4500 USD per month after taxes. It might not be much by SV standards, but in my neighborhood (which is a capital city of one of CE countries) it is top 2% income. It's enough that after maybe 5 years of saving I'm now able to buy 1 bedroom apartment in the city center WITH CASH. Buying 2-3 bedrooms would also be possible if I needed it and decided…

there is only so much money can buy. quality of overall system (bureaucracy, healthcare, social system etc.), safety, prospects for your potential future children.

what you describe is easily achievable, ie when consulting where I lived (Prague), but then overall quality of life can be much higher in other places (this is partly subjective, but definitely valid for me)

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#48

Post by baybal2 »

icebraining wrote: post #17
baybal2 wrote: post #10

Bulgaria has low income tax, but a monsterous social security, EI and pension payments as is with most formerly red countries. This gives self employed people, or people leaving their profits on a company account an ennormous, unfair advantage

What values are we talking about? From a few sites, it seems ~31% (employer + employee), which doesn't seem that high relative to other European countries.

Well, they went down. Used to be like that http://www.worldwide-tax.com/bulgaria/bulgarialaborlaws.asp + income tax + "real insurance" + different property taxes, and all of that in a country with a relatively high VAT

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#49

Post by mamon »

taway_1212 wrote: post #42
mamon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never thought such kind of money is possible in Poland, except in one shitty company that shall remain unnamed here. Could you tell what do you do to earn such a salary ?

One was a remote job at a SV startup and now I'm making pretty much the same in an in-office job in an international corp. I filled a niche they badly needed to fill (it's not like I'm some unicorn though) hence the unusally high pay.

Is that niche called Machine Learning? :)

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#50

Post by baybal2 »

icebraining wrote: post #17
baybal2 wrote: post #10

Bulgaria has low income tax, but a monsterous social security, EI and pension payments as is with most formerly red countries. This gives self employed people, or people leaving their profits on a company account an ennormous, unfair advantage

What values are we talking about? From a few sites, it seems ~31% (employer + employee), which doesn't seem that high relative to other European countries.

Even today, that 31% rate + 10% income tax, + other stuff can easily halve your income.
Post reply on HN