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Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

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Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#41
I've read that Trump's tax cuts are only supposed to help the top 0.4%. I don't think small business owners area allowed to use this tax credit if they're not part of the 0.4%. /sarcasm.

Point being, clearly I've been hearing some lies. I hadn't heard of this yet and I'm sad my news bubble is such a bubble.

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#42
post #7

As an accountant I have had to shoot attempts at claiming this credit down time and time again. Unless you are doing cutting edge/novel research into AI, machine learning, quantum computing, etc you will not qualify for the credit. Think about it this way, unless your research is something you could write a scientific paper on and have it published in a peer reviewed journal, it will not qualify. Also, this is not a…

I have no idea why this is the top most upvoted comment. I know of many companies doing nothing near the level of cutting edge R&D work that the poster claims is necessary, but have gotten substantial tax breaks from this application.

cde-v is spreading categorically false information to the potential detriment of many entrepreneurs. This comment should be downvoted or flagged.

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#43
post #38
post #7

As an accountant I have had to shoot attempts at claiming this credit down time and time again. Unless you are doing cutting edge/novel research into AI, machine learning, quantum computing, etc you will not qualify for the credit. Think about it this way, unless your research is something you could write a scientific paper on and have it published in a peer reviewed journal, it will not qualify. Also, this is not a…

Replying to my own comment since I'm too late to edit. Just read the regs people, the barriers are not as low as the little bit of anecdotal evidence in this thread are suggesting. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-regs/research_credit_basic_sec41...

I think most people here are basically saying "its a grey area and it would be stupid not to take advantage of the credits even if you feel you don't 100% qualify".

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#44
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's not necessarily a tech requirement. A restaurant developing a new menu as it tests out recipes is just as much R&D as anything else. No idea why people think R&D needs to be cutting edge tech research...

No... one of the requirements is "research which is undertaken for the purpose of discovering information which is technological in nature"

Might a restaurant specializing in molecular gastronomy[0] devising new dishes qualify then?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_gastronomy

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#45
post #14
post #13

The layers of control in the current economy seems boundless. Makes me want to join the goldbugs sometimes. Hard money seems so much simpler and freer. An anonymous, portable, fungible, hard to counterfeit and inflate, universal account of previous work value. People give it to you when you give them something or a service they want. It seems like a system of the people, by the people, and for the people.

And after a while, maybe we could pool resources together for projects such as infrastructure, bridges, fire stations, that are too expensive for any single person, but from whom we would all benefit! It would be great! We could all give some of our money for these! Let's call this way of doing things government. Oh wait.

Was not criticizing the government in particular, just commenting on one aspect of how monolithic systems over time become inscrutable to the humans that have to use them. See Kafka who lived under the Austro-Hungarian Empire for some famous literary examples.

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#46
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's not necessarily a tech requirement. A restaurant developing a new menu as it tests out recipes is just as much R&D as anything else. No idea why people think R&D needs to be cutting edge tech research...

No... one of the requirements is "research which is undertaken for the purpose of discovering information which is technological in nature"

Basically all food production is "technological in nature".

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#47
post #42
post #7

As an accountant I have had to shoot attempts at claiming this credit down time and time again. Unless you are doing cutting edge/novel research into AI, machine learning, quantum computing, etc you will not qualify for the credit. Think about it this way, unless your research is something you could write a scientific paper on and have it published in a peer reviewed journal, it will not qualify. Also, this is not a…

I have no idea why this is the top most upvoted comment. I know of many companies doing nothing near the level of cutting edge R&D work that the poster claims is necessary, but have gotten substantial tax breaks from this application. cde-v is spreading categorically false information to the potential detriment of many entrepreneurs. This comment should be downvoted or flagged.

> I have no idea why this is the top most upvoted comment

HN thinks if you can shoot something down it means you're smarter than that thing. Therefore the most negative sentiment is the most intelligent, and should be voted to the top.

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#48
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it this way, unless your research is something you could write a scientific paper on and have it published in a peer reviewed journal, it will not qualify. That's not true at all. In the US, at least. As a tax lawyer, I've had to have this conversation quite a few times with accountants who misread the law and don't think it applies to their clients. The US R&D credit has 4 basic requirements, and "cuttin…

I agree with all but your first sentence... I think you are just underestimating what topics can have peer reviewed scientific papers written about them. http://ac.els-cdn.com/S235197891500013X/1-s2.0-S235197891500... I was more taking a shot at the companies who do a redesign/facelift of their website/customer portal, or a bank struggling to integrate an off the shelf trading tool into their systems.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The first is a clear example of a permissible R&D credit activity if it otherwise satisfies the 4 requirements, and courts have found that the second activity generally would also be permissible for R&D credits if the integration involved additional software development by the bank (though this is more of a facts-based determination).

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#49
post #7

As an accountant I have had to shoot attempts at claiming this credit down time and time again. Unless you are doing cutting edge/novel research into AI, machine learning, quantum computing, etc you will not qualify for the credit. Think about it this way, unless your research is something you could write a scientific paper on and have it published in a peer reviewed journal, it will not qualify. Also, this is not a…

Think about it this way, unless your research is something you could write a scientific paper on and have it published in a peer reviewed journal, it will not qualify. That's not true at all. In the US, at least. As a tax lawyer, I've had to have this conversation quite a few times with accountants who misread the law and don't think it applies to their clients. The US R&D credit has 4 basic requirements, and "cuttin…

Let's say I pay a programmer to develop that new game engine...why wouldn't I just deduct the expense of paying the developer against my revenue? Why would I even need to look into this tax credit? The only companies I see this benefitting are those with no or negative income, but have high payroll taxes, which doesn't seem to me to be a lot of companies out there.

Re: Reduce your startup's payroll taxes through the new Federal R&D Tax Credit

#50
post #7

As an accountant I have had to shoot attempts at claiming this credit down time and time again. Unless you are doing cutting edge/novel research into AI, machine learning, quantum computing, etc you will not qualify for the credit. Think about it this way, unless your research is something you could write a scientific paper on and have it published in a peer reviewed journal, it will not qualify. Also, this is not a…

Think about it this way, unless your research is something you could write a scientific paper on and have it published in a peer reviewed journal, it will not qualify. That's not true at all. In the US, at least. As a tax lawyer, I've had to have this conversation quite a few times with accountants who misread the law and don't think it applies to their clients. The US R&D credit has 4 basic requirements, and "cuttin…

At my work, we specifically log hours differently if we're working on new development versus bug fixing to document our work for the R&D credit.
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