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Dedicated to Ian Murdock

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Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#41

Post by michaelHastings »

tritium wrote: post #40
jacquesm wrote: post #11

There is this movie called 'Falling Down', when I heard about what happened to Ian I immediately associated it with the patterns in that movie. Very sad and it is a real pity that we lose these wonderful people to momentary lapses of judgment or a cascade of misery starting with some innocent little thing. There isn't a day that I get by without using software influenced by Ian and his role in all this is hard to ove…

You mean you really don't suspect that Ian Murdock was murdered in a manner consistent with the appearance of suicide?

The sad truth is, most people simply refuse to confront hard questions in a manner that challenges their coping skills.

Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#42

Post by newscracker »

I have an overwhelming feeling of sadness and loss when I hear of and recall (multiple times, later) of the people who have contributed so much but decided to end their lives for various reasons (like Ian Murdock and Aaron Swartz, as two examples). The world is now way better due to their existence and contributions, but at the same time I also wonder how much more we could've progressed as a species if they had continued to live for a few more decades. Is it too much to ask, albeit from a selfish perspective, that people live longer lives? Is it too much to ask for treating people better and creating social and legal structures to avoid such situations?

I don' use Debian (not directly), but I'm aware of the Debian philosophy and its impact on free software. If it were up to me, I would dedicate and re-dedicate every Debian release to Ian for the next few releases, at the very least.

Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#43

Post by newscracker »

shykes wrote: post #39

A small anecdote in memory of Ian. When he joined Docker it was to help us make the platform more open and community-friendly. He died before completing his project and we've done our best to continue it in the way he would have wanted. We finally launched it, over a year late, under the name Moby. That name was Ian's idea too. We initially wanted to publicly dedicate the Moby launch to him, but decided against it, b…

> We initially wanted to publicly dedicate the Moby launch to him, but decided against it, because we didn't want to give the impression that we were cynically using his name to help our launch succeed.

I get what you're saying, but my guess is that most people would've seen it differently, especially if you had also mentioned everything that Ian had contributed to before joining Docker. I believe Docker lost an opportunity, with this decision, to connect with people who're still around.

Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#44

Post by shykes »

newscracker wrote: post #43
shykes wrote: post #39

A small anecdote in memory of Ian. When he joined Docker it was to help us make the platform more open and community-friendly. He died before completing his project and we've done our best to continue it in the way he would have wanted. We finally launched it, over a year late, under the name Moby. That name was Ian's idea too. We initially wanted to publicly dedicate the Moby launch to him, but decided against it, b…

> We initially wanted to publicly dedicate the Moby launch to him, but decided against it, because we didn't want to give the impression that we were cynically using his name to help our launch succeed. I get what you're saying, but my guess is that most people would've seen it differently, especially if you had also mentioned everything that Ian had contributed to before joining Docker. I believe Docker lost an oppo…

Yes, that possibility is often on my mind. When we made the decision, Docker was the target of loud and vitriolic criticism in parts of the open-source community. In our experience the vitriol, even if it comes from a small minority, can spoil the discourse for everyone else. We didn't want to risk dragging Ian's name into that. I have no doubt that we missed an opportunity, but it just didn't seem worth the risk.

Maybe at some point in the future, when Docker is no longer as polarizing (something we're actively working on ), we will revisit the issue.

Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#45

Post by newscracker »

serf wrote: post #25
freehunter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make sure everyone is aware, the original post (before it was flagged) said "fuck the police" and then linked Ian's twitter history and some LiveLeak video I didn't watch. To put it in context, Ian said he was abused by the police for knocking on his neighbor's door, and then threatened to commit suicide. He later retracted the statement, but then actually followed through and hung himself until he was dead. I sup…

I don't disagree with anything you've said, and I think that it's important that people seek help, but I think there is one more important aspect that you left out. Much of his (online) social circle completely dropped away from him due to what they perceived as his use of bigoted racist language, not because they perceived him as having a temporary lapse in judgement or breakdown. They (the 'twitterverse') did judge…

> My point in saying this : if anyone has a friend or loved one that suddenly acts out of character, how about saving the moral and ethical rhetoric and judgement until after you're fully aware that they're not undergoing some sort of crisis and speaking out-of-turn, please?

Completely agree with this in the general sense (not specific to this topic). I feel that with the advent of communication platforms like social media, microblogging, instant messaging, 24x7 news, etc., people seem to have become too quick to judge, and the capacity to have nuanced views and separating different aspects seems to be diminished significantly. If we treat everything as a binary, how will we ever learn and become better with ourselves and others?

Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#46

Post by digi_owl »

serf wrote: post #25
freehunter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make sure everyone is aware, the original post (before it was flagged) said "fuck the police" and then linked Ian's twitter history and some LiveLeak video I didn't watch. To put it in context, Ian said he was abused by the police for knocking on his neighbor's door, and then threatened to commit suicide. He later retracted the statement, but then actually followed through and hung himself until he was dead. I sup…

I don't disagree with anything you've said, and I think that it's important that people seek help, but I think there is one more important aspect that you left out. Much of his (online) social circle completely dropped away from him due to what they perceived as his use of bigoted racist language, not because they perceived him as having a temporary lapse in judgement or breakdown. They (the 'twitterverse') did judge…

I can't help wonder if the FOSS world is dealing with a "red scare" type scenario. Meaning that if someone, even in the most odd of situations, make then seem like anything less than a flag carrying liberal, they have to be denounced ASAP or you yourself will be tared and feathered a well.

Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#47

Post by jacquesm »

tritium wrote: post #40
jacquesm wrote: post #11

There is this movie called 'Falling Down', when I heard about what happened to Ian I immediately associated it with the patterns in that movie. Very sad and it is a real pity that we lose these wonderful people to momentary lapses of judgment or a cascade of misery starting with some innocent little thing. There isn't a day that I get by without using software influenced by Ian and his role in all this is hard to ove…

You mean you really don't suspect that Ian Murdock was murdered in a manner consistent with the appearance of suicide?

No, I really don't suspect that.

Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#48

Post by digi_owl »

newscracker wrote: post #45
serf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, and I think that it's important that people seek help, but I think there is one more important aspect that you left out. Much of his (online) social circle completely dropped away from him due to what they perceived as his use of bigoted racist language, not because they perceived him as having a temporary lapse in judgement or breakdown. They (the 'twitterverse') did judge…

> My point in saying this : if anyone has a friend or loved one that suddenly acts out of character, how about saving the moral and ethical rhetoric and judgement until after you're fully aware that they're not undergoing some sort of crisis and speaking out-of-turn, please? Completely agree with this in the general sense (not specific to this topic). I feel that with the advent of communication platforms like social…

Could be a case of peer pressure. They worry that if they are not quick to condemn they themselves will be condemned.

Re: Dedicated to Ian Murdock

#49

Post by ridruejo »

shykes wrote: post #44
newscracker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We initially wanted to publicly dedicate the Moby launch to him, but decided against it, because we didn't want to give the impression that we were cynically using his name to help our launch succeed. I get what you're saying, but my guess is that most people would've seen it differently, especially if you had also mentioned everything that Ian had contributed to before joining Docker. I believe Docker lost an oppo…

Yes, that possibility is often on my mind. When we made the decision, Docker was the target of loud and vitriolic criticism in parts of the open-source community. In our experience the vitriol, even if it comes from a small minority, can spoil the discourse for everyone else. We didn't want to risk dragging Ian's name into that. I have no doubt that we missed an opportunity, but it just didn't seem worth the risk. Ma…

I agree, people always find a way to misinterpret things. It is a really nice thought and speaks greatly of you
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